Re: Easy Steps To Save Energy


"J. Clarke" <jclarke.usenet@xxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:ge06lo01r3a@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Twibil wrote:
On Oct 24, 3:31 pm, Kevin <kevyNOS...@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

The real debate about man-caused global warming is over. And it
changes nothing that you don't care for the idea. Deal with it.

the debate is most deff not over.

Uh, because a twit like you doesn't want to admit the truth, it's
supposed to impress anyone?

Please.

only the libs are trying to stuff the unproveable notion down our
throuts.

Uh, no, I -along with millions of others- am a life-long
conservative.
And unlike you, we know truth when we see it.

The planet's in trouble, and it's mostly our own doing.

Have you seen the data from the Vostok ice core? It should scare the
living crap out of anybody who wants to stop doing whatever it is that
we've been doing.

The idea that the tiny crap we do
can change the climate is just about laughable but idiots believe
it
just the same.

(A) It isn't "tiny" at all. (B) The idiots who believe it start with
the guys who study climatology for a living: climatologists. (C)
Your
opinion doesn't count unless you're one of them.

There are two groups of climatologists. There are the ones who get
all the attention with their unvalidated computer model that works
from data going back a few hundred years who are telling us "the sky
is falling, the sky is falling", and there are the paleoclimatologists
who work from a dataset going back half a million years who are
wondering "why hasn't the sky fallen?". The paleo guys don't have
fancy computer models though, and their message isn't one which can be
explained in a sound byte, and in any case there's nothing there for
the politicians to grab onto to pretend to be Doing Something, so
nobody pays any attention to them.


Something that gets forgotten in all this is that in its _normal_
state as measured over hundreds of millions of years, the planet is
substantially ice free and significantly warmer than at present.

During those hundreds of millions of years we had a lot different
layout of continents, as well as a lot more water in shallow seas.
See Plate Tectonics.

It
just happens that the tiny period of time during which humans have
existed

It's a lot more than that. The current theories now on Dinosaur
extinction are that while a comet slamming into the Earth was
very likely the trigger, the fact was that the environment had
steadily been getting cooler for hundreds of thousands if not
millions of years prior to the comet strike. Reptiles do not do
well in the cold, and if the Earth's environment was as extremely
favorable to reptiles as it had been when the dinos first appeared
on the scene, the dinosaur populations would have survived a
comet strike.

has all be during an unusual set of conditions, which may very
well be ending--now this is the sort of thing that most people want to
believe is pie in the sky that isn't going to happen in their
lifetimes or their great grandchildrens' lifetimes, but it is going to
happen in _somebody_'s lifetime unless we take radical action to stop
it and it looks like we might be elected.


Since our reserves of Fossil Fuels, oil, coal, and natural gas,
were built up due to hundreds of millions of years of plant material
being compacted into the Earth, during the warmer part of the Earth,
and once a considerably huge amount of carbon had been removed
from the Earth's atmosphere by this process the Earth started to get
colder, it seems to add weight to the idea of global warming being
caused by carbon release.

So there are three possibilities. One is that we're due to be in a
period of deep glaciation (in the last one the glaciers covered most
of New England--Long Island is the pile of rocks they dropped when
they melted) and something is keeping it from happening--if that
something is _us_ then we bloody well better not stop doing whatever
it is that we're doing. The second is that the ice ages are over and
the planet is returning to its normal state and we better get ready to
either live with it or take really radical and really expensive action
to stop it. The third is that we are causing some kind of problem
that wouldn't exist otherwise and aren't preventing any other kind of
problem, in which case we need to figure out _exactly_ what we are
doing and correct the problem.

The latest estimates are that we need to cut emissions to 5 percent of
the 1990 levels by 2050 in order to "solve the problem". If we're
busy doing that and the planet decides to warm up anyway then we're
screwed because at that level we won't have the technological
resources to reverse nature. If we're what is keeping the next
glaciation from coming then we're screwed again because we won't have
the resources to deal with that either. The only _safe_ approach is
to assume that it's the planet that's doing it, not us, and put the
pieces in place to deal with _that_ problem by controlling the Earth's
albedo, which will be hideously expensive but once done we'll be able
to handle warming or cooling. Nobody is proposing doing that though
becuase it's not going to mean pulling down the US.


That isn't true, it has been proposed. However, be realistic. There is
not the political support for doing anything about Global Warming at
this time OTHER than moving from fossil fuels to renewable fuels, and
the big reason that there is support for that is that it will unhook us from
MidEast oil.

There will not be support for any other solution until something spectacular
happens such as the sea level rises 10 feet and New York City is flooded.

Just as there was no support for increasing the security inspections at
the airport before 911 even though people had been complaining about
it for the previous 30 years.

Ted


.

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