Re: OT - Impala SS

On Tue, 22 Nov 2005 23:06:39 -0600, Bob Mann <wiley48@xxxxxxxxxxx>
wrote:

>On Wed, 23 Nov 2005 01:54:18 GMT, Calgary
><caldlbdeleteallthis@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>
>>On Tue, 22 Nov 2005 19:07:46 -0600, Bob Mann <wiley48@xxxxxxxxxxx>
>>wrote:
>><snip>
>>>>
>>>>This is little more than a company restructuring itself in the face of
>>>>rising costs due to an aging workforce. We, as in baby boomers are
>>>>getting older and as we do there will be a rise in health care costs
>>>>and pension payouts. If you are looking for a growth industry for the
>>>>next few decades you might consider investing in the mortuary, funeral
>>>>or cemetery business. We are all dying and for a lot of us it will
>>>>happen in the next thirty years.
>>>
>>>The problem is when they decide to get rid of the long term employees
>>>before they can retire. I'm not saying that's what is happening but if
>>>they are trying to reduce pension costs that is what they will have to
>>>do.
>>
>>Well we don't know how the layoffs will shake down.
>>
>>>They need an infusion of younger people to pay into the plans.
>>>That is a symptom of poor investment and funding of the plan.
>>>Well managed plans are at least break even. At best they run
>>>surpluses. I know this much for two reasons. I am in one of the best
>>>run pension plans in the country and I have also worked in the pension
>>>industry (albeit 30 years ago)
>>
>>Mismanagement, poor investment decisions, bad luck? Several of the
>>large pension funds have dark clouds on the horizon. Even our Canada
>>Pension Plan is in trouble, although what would you expect from a
>>Government fund.
>
>The Canada pension plan is in trouble because the money was never kept
>in the plan. They kept using the deductions for general revenue.
>They have been doing that for probably more than 30 years.
>>
>>>>
>>>>That being said I recall reading an article last year forecasting GM's
>>>>pension problems, predicting the obvious result. Further the article
>>>>noted more vehicles were going to be assembled in Canada than the US
>>>>over the following 12 months. Now this had to do with some retooling
>>>>to the US plants but it still illustrates the strength of the Canadian
>>>>auto industry.
>>>
>>>They announced that 4000 jobs are to be cut in Canada.
>>
>>The report I heard was 3000 jobs.
>
>Not sure. Could be. A lot of people are scared.
>>
>>>One whole plant is being shut down in Ontario.
>>
>>Once again I heard they are eliminating one shift immediately, with
>>one plant being shut down in 2008.
>
>I just read that. Funny how certain subtelties are lost on TV.

Sometimes it is the spin applied to the story by the media to enhance
the dramatic value. Too bad sometimes when they do that they lose the
context of the story.
>>
>>Closing an old archaic plant should not come as a surprise. Aging
>>technology cannot compete with the brand new leading edge technology
>>their competitors are building.
>
>That's true. However, the announcement didn't mention that.
>It may have been announced before but no mention was made this time.
>>
>>Once again I go back to my original point, this is a realignment.
>>
>>>Frankly, I have never understood why they haven't moved out west to
>>>build cars. Tradition I suppose.
>>
>>I think the close proximity to Detroit had a bearing on it. That might
>>change as time goes on.
>
>I would like to see that.
>Hyundai tried building outside of the Golden Triangle but they chose
>Quebec. It didn't last long.
>>>>
>>>>Now factor in GM has already announced the investment of 2.5 billion
>>>>in the Canadian industry and I for one do not see the basis for the
>>>>doom and gloom predictions. Canada's auto industry is strong and will
>>>>continue to grow.
>>>
>>>Is that still on the table?
>>
>>Yup, once again, realignment. Out with the old and in with the new.
>>
>>>How much are they taking out at the same time?
>>
>>I think they just announced that.
>>
>>>What will be the net effect on jobs?
>>
>>I don't look at the net effect on jobs, I look at the health of the
>>industry. An industry that is not sustainable due to a bloated labour
>>budget, is only a drain on the community. It is destined for
>>bankruptcy or worse yet Government subsidies.
>
>As much as a healthy industry is nice and it helps our trade balance,
>it isn't worth much if it doesn't provide employment.
>Income taxes are too big to ignore.
>A bloated labour budget isn't a drain on the community, it is a drain
>on the business themselves, in this case, a multi-national.
>The community benefits from jobs and all the spin offs.
>Housing, secondary jobs, property taxes, income taxes, etc.
>Vesides, where would Belinda Stronach be without high level income
>from vehicles? ;-)
>
>>
>>Now a healthy industry capable of sustaining a positive contribution
>>to the community is an asset. Build more assets and you will not have
>>to worry about jobs.
>
>A healthy industry provides local employment. If it doesn't do that it
>isn't of much local benefit. (This seems to be one of those circular
>arguments)
>>
Chicken and egg stuff, but a healthy industry always provides
employment either directly or indirectly.

>>>>
>>>>At the end of the day business's need the flexibility to realign to
>>>>current conditions. The markets will not remain static and neither
>>>>will the workforce. Since labour is the largest controllable cost for
>>>>almost any business, it will always bear the brunt of any realignment.
>>>
>>>The current conditions are that GM has built crap vehicles for a long
>>>time and their reduced market share is a direct result of having
>>>Korean quality vehicles at Japanese prices.
>>
>>Once again, today I heard many good things about the efficiency and
>>quality of GM products. Not owning one or following the overseas vs
>>North American debate I really couldn't speak to which one is better.
>>Me I drive an 03 Chrysler and find it is everything I expected when I
>>bought it.
>
>I just came into a 1987 Olds 98.
>I don't think that will help GM out much. :-)
>The main car is a VW.
>We have not had good experiences with GM.
>>
>>>They need to make fewer models and make them better.
>>
>>As I am fond of saying, when trying to find efficiencies in an
>>organizational structure or build more capacity into a system, it is
>>better to do a hundred things 1% better than to try to do one thing
>>100% better.
>
>There is a balance to be achieved there.
>If those 100 things need 5% improvement then making them 1% better
>isn't good enough but if you can cut that down to 50 things and make
>them 10% better you have a winner.
>They already have an over capacity.
>If they really want to cut back they need to rationalize what they are
>doing and rethink their targets.
>
>>
>>Good discussion! See it is possible in Reeky. lol
>
>Once in a while. :-)

OK, now on cue let's start the name calling.

--


Don
RCOS# 7

2000 - Yamaha Venture Millenium Edition
http://www3.telus.net/public/dbinns/radium1.htm
http://www3.telus.net/public/dbinns/banff.htm
http://www3.telus.net/public/dbinns/kananaskis.htm
http://www3.telus.net/public/dbinns/walkercalgary.htm
http://www3.telus.net/public/dbinns/calgarybrowning.htm
http://www3.telus.net/public/dbinns/venture.htm
http://www3.telus.net/public/dbinns/gem.htm
http://www3.telus.net/public/dbinns/highwood.htm
http://www3.telus.net/public/dbinns/reynolds.htm
http://www3.telus.net/public/dbinns/sask.htm
http://www3.telus.net/public/dbinns/osoyoos.htm
.

Relevant Pages

  • Re: Way OT and political, too
    ... but /they/ had the jobs and we did not. ... An invasion plan without a success contingency. ... It makes about as much sense as going to war to kill Saddam Hussein. ... My very simple understanding is probably a consequence of having lived in the mideast for only ten years. ...
    (rec.woodworking)
  • Re: OT: WTF is up with Cheney?
    ... American jobs since February. ... All Obama's "spendalous" plan has done ... The American economy is fueled by private sector jobs ...
    (rec.gambling.poker)
  • Re: OT: WTF is up with Cheney?
    ... and we've lost almost two million jobs since February. ... raise taxes on small businesses, ... His cap and tax energy plan, ... other than cut taxes on the wealthy and let the economy ...
    (rec.gambling.poker)
  • Re: fiat
    ... trade them shares of stock for their I.O.U.'s. ... this number was understated for the reason that the 73,454 jobs ... Today GM admits to another plan to shrink its U.S. assembly line ...
    (rec.autos.makers.ford.mustang)
Loading