Re: Colin's take on the tires, etc.

Julian Bond wrote:
Brutus

The bike seemed to be getting more and more competive as this season progressed. Even Nicky began to
look be in the potentional podium/win mix. With Honda's vast resourses I wouldn't write them off at
this point.

Honda have a new engine that chases power via revs via pneumatic valves. And yet there were races near the end of the season last year when they had to turn the power down late in the race to deal with fuel consumption. It is still Nov, and there's only been two tests but the current version of the new engine seems to have both top end power issues and drive-ability issues. I'm sure they will work it out, but I don't think they'll work it out by the start of the season.

Motor issues are the most likely to be worked out, largely taking shop work and lots of testing on the dyno. You don't need the same degree of track testing as the chassis, and sorting through the rider feedback. It would be very surprising to me if Honda doesn't have a significantly improved powerplant by March.

Then there's
the new chassis. Dani P really got last year's sorted with about 5 races to go and he started riding it like a motocrosser. Hayden also seemed to work it out around the same time but maybe got confused by tyres. So now they're both starting again with a new chassis.

Huh? Didn't Honda provide them with several chassis during the year? Doesn't the new bike use an evolution of the old one and not a totally new design? Seems like you're reaching here.

It wouldn't surprise me
at all if it takes them several races before they really get it dialled in and work out all over again how to get the best from it. And with the satellite teams getting the end of '07 bike, HRC won't let Dani P and Hayden use it. They'll have to persevere with the new bike until it works.

C'mon, this isn't Hayden-Brno in 2006 all over again, I really doubt that either would want to reach back and use a bike that they both would rather forget. Hayden in particular seems unlikely to do so, and appears quite positive about the eventual prospects of the new machine.

>> However lets give Stoner some credit for riding a near flawless race
season. Wouldn't most (folk in
the know:) rate Capirossi as faster then Edwards?

When Stoner had a bad day last year (3rd or 4th), it was caused by questionable tyre choices. With 40 tyres per weekend and the testing rules relaxed for unusual circuits, I can't see these mistakes repeating themselves.

I think the common view of the tire thing is a bit off. Adding 9 tires to the assortment available doesn't really change things that much, I don't think. People seem very focused on Michelin losing the Saturday Night Specials, but I don't think that's really so much the issue here. The issue is that in the past when things weren't working so well on Friday or the weather was variable, the top riders could make changes on the fly, going in a new direction. If you look at Hayden late in the year, he was working on the new 16-inchers, and at Valencia his whole suite of selected tires were these. But then they didn't seem to work on the track, and he had no alternative. That didn't take Michelin brewing up tires across the border in France, it just took them going to the back of the truck, but that wasn't, and won't be, an option.

So what do the extra tires mean? Several times this year a read about guys not able to practice on a tire they had already selected for the race, because there were no more of them available, just the race set. So do they just take more of the few tires they select? Or do they add another set of one more option, or maybe both? Nine tires just doesn't add that much, doesn't go that far.

Bridgestone seemed to have an edge in part because their shipping requirements probably had the focused on tires that covered a broader range of applications, they were already choosing to play under these sorts of rules more than Michelin. And their tires were simply better; if they replayed last year under the old rules Bridgestone would have likely came out on top anyway.

But blaming tire selection for the races where Stoner was off the pace seems too simplistic, I really doubt that he'd have won 18 races under the old rules, or these new ones. When you're winning that easily, it's easy to see where a single change could have added to the tally. It gets more complicated to assess when your bike doesn't handle well generally, or your motor doesn't make enough power, or it fails altogether, or you get knocked off the track by another rider. What Stoner seems to have is more potential ways for things to go downhill than anyone else, having had a blessed season. You know, like Rossi going into 06-07...
.

Relevant Pages

  • Re: An era ends and another begins (spoiler)
    ... Aside from the Yamaha/Michelin front row that got all the press and a race with no readily apparent tire advantage, most telling was that top four - Stoner, Lorenzo, Pedrosa and Dovizioso. ... go back a few years and you wouldn't even be able to find four riders anywhere on the grid who weighed as little as these guys do. ... What it shows is what Qatar qualifying also showed, as did Stoner's championship last year - these bikes are getting progressively easier to ride fast, and exactly how fast depends on things largely outside the rider's control - how well he matches up with the machine, how good the machine is, how good the tires are. ... What I was saying is that it's much easier to get 98% of what a bike has out of it today than ever before, but then guys hit a wall. ...
    (rec.motorcycles.racing)
  • Adios, 2007
    ... Pedrosa wins, finally making his qualifying pace extend to the race, and the Michelins managed to last as well. ... Also symbolic of the March of the Midgets that the smallest of all wins the final race, and it only adds to it that he passed Stoner and his extra 16 pounds down the Valencia straight on the gas. ... Rossi has his worst championship position since his GP rookie year, more than a decade ago, his hand broken and his bike failing, way down field, shades of last year's Valencia disaster. ... A great season, but as it has been all year, the question remains if it was the tires, or the bike, or the rider, in what was a hugely transitional year. ...
    (rec.motorcycles.racing)
  • Re: Im a believer (Spoiler)
    ... Believers is that line by Jerry the Baptist that bike racing is, ... the very best bikes running on some of the best tires (which is what ... , beaten on the last lap by Stoner at Catalunya, ... Show the damned live race until conclusion, ...
    (rec.motorcycles.racing)
  • Re: 700/23 vs 700/25 tires ?
    ... speed or power. ... It was 1.9% for the tires I chose, ... Aero drag was 11 watts out of 300, ... beat him in a road race by riding a mountain bike with knobbies. ...
    (rec.bicycles.tech)
  • Re: 700/23 vs 700/25 tires ?
    ... if you're interested much more in tires ... I will take as an example the Pescadero Road Race: ... Let us consider _only_ the final climb of Haskins Hill, ... an 11 meter gap at the top of a 10 minute hill ...
    (rec.bicycles.tech)