Re: Ethanol - Brazil
- From: Eat Dirt <no_email@xxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2006 21:50:38 -0700
In article <1143808573.528515.199400@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>,
"Tiago Rocha" <diariodastrilhas@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
SNOman wrote:
Saw something on our TV last night concerning oil production and
alternatives.
Specific mention was given to the oil sands in Alberta. The other
mention was the great work that Brazil had been doing re ethanol from
sugar cane and how they have vehicles which will run on pure ethanol or
a gas/ethanol mix. They also stated that their dependence on imported
oil will be 0 by the end of this year because of the ethanol research.
Way cheaper costs running your car as well. Wish we had it here. Gas
went to $1.62/ltr today (95) :-(
Well, I have a 1991 vw gol (a brazilian small version of the german
golf, hmm, no, it is a completely different car) which is ethanol
powered. Some of my friends have these newer cars which run on either
gasoline of ethanol, they are called flex fuel cars. Alcohol is good as
a fuel, because it gives more HP than gasoline and burns cleaner. It is
amazing, my car has 240 thousand kilometers on the odometer and the
engine was never rebuild. I change oil every 5 thousand kilometers and
the oil comes out the same color it goes in. I compare this with my
mom's 2003 chevrolet corsa, which is gasoline powered. The car has less
than 30 thousand kilometers and the oil is always black. Not that is
affects the oil "job" on the engine, but black means stuff floating
around on the oil, ethanol does not produce this stuff. I don't need to
say I am a big fan of ethanol powered cars, do I?
There are downsides. A gasoline powered car consumes less fuel. With
the gas you can drive 100 kilometers on a gasoline car, you can only
drive 70km with ethanol, so the price difference X mileage must be
considered. These flex fuel cars have a special software in the fi
module, that changes the "jetting", using data from O2 sensors on the
exhaust system, these sensors have to be better build - imho - and a
failure on them could be very bad for the engine. Said that, I wish I
had a flex fuel car, because from february to late april we don't have
much ethanol supply - sazonal and climatic issues with the cane sugar
plant - prices skyrocket and the gasoline, which is a more efficient
fuel, turns out cheaper. Right now, a liter of ethanol costs USD 0.86,
while gas is 1.09. Doing math, 0.89/1.09=0.81, it had to be less than
0.7 to make the price worth burning ethanol. Back in january, ethanol
was 0.68 and gasoline was roughly the same price. 0.68/1.09=0.62, huge
advantage for ethanol.
Our dependence on oil import will end not because of cane sugar and
ethanol, but will happen because we found a huge supply of oil deep in
the sea and production will start next month.
on a on-topic statement: Back in 1984 honda made a ethanol versiol of
the XL125. Nobody wanted it, because alcohol engines are a bitch to
start when the temperature is below 20 celsius... Because of that, cars
have a small gasoline tank (one or two liters) that is used for cold
starts. I don't remember if the XL had this auxiliar gas tank, I have
seen a few of those old bikes, I can't remember seing anything
different on them.
-- Tiago -- biodiesel - which can be home made - and ethanol are our
alternatives to dino juice, right before hydrogen power gets cheap.
Very cool reading. And although at this time the economics of using
alcohol as a fuel source may not seem too attractive, Brazil could end
up winning big time in a few years when oil production begins to dwindle
and prices skyrocket.
Here in Canada we have an alternative to gasoline and diesel (which
powers many cars including my gf's) and this alternative is propane.
Natural, cheap but also has its problems. Converting a truck to run on
propane isn't a biggie as I knew a mechanic that did it regularly. The
problem is, you need to attach a huge tank to your truck, killing
valuable bed space. And the mileage isnt great either, you can only go
so far. Power wise it feels gay compared to gasoline and even diesel, as
the car seems to lose a lot of hp. But hauling a F350 over long
distances on propane wasn't too bad and the savings were a big thing.
Nowadays I don't even know how much propane costs.
BTW in Calgary all taxis are run on propane. And you don't see those
huge ugly tanks, so I suppose that they must make frequent stops at the
many gas stations that also carry propane.
Tiago Rocha, don't they also have cars in Brazil running on natural gas?
.
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