Re: ATF's alledged information on club permits

Look here, about halfway down the page:

http://www.rocketryplanet.com/content/view/656/28/

Here's a snippet:

===========================

Department Response
The commenters' contention that the proposed rule, if adopted, will have a negative effect on small businesses is based on their assumption that there will be reduced participation in the hobby by sport rocket hobbyists. Many commenters argued that the permitting, storage, and other requirements for rocket motors containing more than 62.5 grams of propellant are overly burdensome for the average sport rocket hobbyist and, as such, many will choose to leave the sport. In that regard, NAR stated the following:

It has been estimated that approximately 3000 individuals currently participating in the rocket hobby will stop doing so, and hundreds more potential new participants will decline to get involved, as a direct result of ATFE's positions reflected in the NPRM* * * . NAR estimates membership in its various sections across the country will decline anywhere between 10 and 80 percent (and the Tripoli Rocketry Association estimates a 40 percent decline in membership).

These comments appear to be based on the misconception that the final rule would "impose" the requirements of 27 CFR part 555 on rocket motors containing more than 62.5 grams of propellant. The Department's view is that this characterization of the rule is incorrect. The Department's position is that APCP is properly classified as an explosive and, in the absence of an exemption, the requirements of 27 CFR part 555 would apply to all rocket motors, regardless of the quantity of propellant. As stated above, the final rule formally implements ATF's long-standing policy of exempting from part 555 rocket motors containing not more than 62.5 grams of propellant. If this exemption did not exist, the consequences outlined in the comments, if accurate, would be more pronounced because there would be no exemption whatsoever for hobby rocket motors of any size.

The Department disagrees with the commenters' assertion that the proposed rule, if adopted, will result in significant reduction in participation by sport rocket hobbyists which, in turn, will have a negative effect on small businesses. By contrast, the result of the exemption would be to lessen the burden of complying with requirements of the Federal explosives laws and to encourage participation in sport rocketry. Without the exemption, all rocket motors and all persons who acquire them would be required to comply with the permit, storage, and other requirements of Federal law. Likewise, without the exemption, all retailers, hobby, game and toy stores that distribute and store rocket motors containing not more than 62.5 grams of explosive would be obligated to obtain Federal explosives licenses and comply with all regulatory, recordkeeping and inspection requirements. As stated previously, APCP has been regulated under the Federal explosives controls since 1971. Thus, requirements to comply with the law when acquiring, transporting, selling or storing non-exempt rocket motors is nothing new, and many persons who have acquired non-exempt motors without obtaining a Federal permit and who fail to store them properly have committed a crime. Moreover, a number of commenters indicates they have acquired large rocket motors and transported them across State lines for rocket shoots without obtaining a Federal license or permit. Such transportation violates Federal law now and violated the law prior to enactment of the Safe Explosives Act. Again, the exemption embodied by this final rule is intended to provide some relief to rocketry enthusiasts while taking into account the clear mandate of Congress that explosives be effectively regulated.

Moreover, the burden of complying with the law and regulations for non-exempt rocket motors can be minimized through participation in rocketry clubs. Comments indicate that a significant number of rocket hobbyists belong to such organizations. ATF has recently advised rocket clubs that, if they hold a valid Federal explosives user permit, they may sponsor rocket launches and provide rocket motors to club members. A club "member," as defined under the club's bylaws establishing club membership, may participate in the rocket launch without having an individual permit so long as the member is not prohibited under Federal law from possessing explosives. With respect to storage, ATF has advised rocketry clubs that any unused rocket motors must be stored in either a club magazine or that the club must arrange for storage with another licensee or permittee (contingency storage).

============================


Note that the way this is written, it says that if the CLUB holds a LEUP - I don't know HOW that would be accomplished, unless each club becomes a corporation.

This is going to be horrendous if enacted, I certainly hope folks are supporting the legal effort, because that's our (current) last chance. If that fails, then our next step will be to get specific legislation enacted, which could/would take years, and more money than we've already spent on the legal battle...

David Erbas-White


David Schultz wrote:

Has anyone seen this "recent" bit of information referred to in the final rule published Friday? If so, who was it sent to and what does it say?


.

Relevant Pages

  • Re: KN Ratio-What is it?
    ... I see it ranges from 150 to 300 range, ... Homemade Solid Fuel Rocket Motors by David G. Sleeter) But It deals ... to make sure I have a solid burning core). ...
    (rec.models.rockets)
  • Re: history of black power rockets
    ... pressed black powder rocket motors. ... In realtionship to "cored" BP rocket motos and clay nozzles, ... direct lineage to the skyrocket pressed BP motors that go way back.... ...
    (rec.pyrotechnics)
  • Re: ATFs alleged information on club permits
    ... "ATF has recently advised rocket clubs that, if they hold a valid Federal explosives user permit, they may sponsor rocket launches and provide rocket motors to club members." ... Many commenters argued that the permitting, storage, and other requirements for rocket motors containing more than 62.5 grams of propellant are overly burdensome for the average sport rocket hobbyist and, as such, many will choose to leave the sport. ... the result of the exemption would be to lessen the burden of complying with requirements of the Federal explosives laws and to encourage participation in sport rocketry. ...
    (rec.models.rockets)
  • history of black power rockets
    ... In realtionship to "cored" BP rocket motos and clay nozzles, I can't realy find what I call the "missing link"; that is, when taperd hollow core pressed black powder rocket motors evolved(?) into end-burners. ... The more I look into it the more I am convinced that the BP model rocket as patented in 1954 by Carlisle and as we know them today, have a direct lineage to the skyrocket pressed BP motors that go way back.... ...
    (rec.pyrotechnics)
  • Re: Gordon Moore on explosives, and semiconductors
    ... >Moore was a chemist by training, and explained that he got into chemistry ... >successful explosives hobbyist: All digits present.) ... When using sugar and potassium nitrate to make rocket fuel, ... Chlorate, Zinc, Sulfer, Ethylene Oxide, Picric Acid, white and yellow ...
    (sci.electronics.design)