Re: Gravity is not a force which acts on objects at a distance.

On Dec 17, 10:11 am, "travis...@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx" <travis...@xxxxxxx>
wrote:
All these examples can be reexplained with no faster-than-light propagation
of any kind.  It all depends on how you interpret quantum mechanics.

I disagree, because empirical evidence seems to suggest that the ***
go faster than c in OUR reference frame.

Who cares about the quantum multiple worlds so long as I see it as
faster than c?

You know, I agree with you, that if this was the only tradeoff, Many Worlds
seems weird, and there is nothing sacred about Special Relativity.  Why not
modify it slightly?  What's the harm.

I didn't mean to suggest that SR being violated was the proof of MW.  It's
more, that it's a nice coincidence that MW happens to restore SR as well.

I'm sure there is some oversight somewhere or special exception.
Perhaps this is a failure to reconcile QM and SR again.

I think everybody has that reaction when they first hear about it.

And I agree with you, that merely pointing out that SR says things shouldn't
go faster than lightspeed, isn't a very strong argument.

But that turns out not to be the real argument in favor of MW.  It's just
a consequence.

As i read your post more I understand that we are talking about
probability waves with respect to quantum effects, and I am 100% fine
with that.

I earlier provided a link to an extended non-technical explanation, about
why.  I'm not sure I can summarize in a few sentences, in any way that would
be convincing.

That explanation was fanciful.

The basic story is: at the level of subatomic particles (like individual
photons and electrons), it is completely clear that the things don't act like
the commonsense world.  You send a photon to a half-silvered mirror, and it
isn't a 50% that it passes through, vs. a 50% chance that it reflects.
There's no question, from quantum experiments, that the single photon does
BOTH at the same time.  It results in a "superposition", with half of the
photon's "amplitude" reflecting, and half transmitting.

Yes, and I am totally fine with these.  There is no reason whatsoever
to give me the layman's explanation.

Photons are not particles and exist as a probability wave, like
electrons.  They're abstractions that have properties.  I'm cool with
all this.

Similarly with the double-slit experiment and interference: single photons
pass through BOTH slits at the same time.

Isn't that cool how that happens?  And photons pass through obstructed
slits as well!

God is great.  Light and the QM world is essentially an abstraction
described by mathematical properties and I do not expect it to obey
our notions of what is logical in the larger world.

The "Multiple Worlds" interpretation basically says: exactly what we KNOW
is happening at the subatomic level, never changes.  We have no evidence
for anything ever being different, so let's just assume the same thing happens
at all scales.  And what do you know, all the experiments become easy to
understand, and there's no contradiction, and you even get Special Relativity
back for free.

Ok, so, um, there is another me that measures a c-bound time?  But
when they all collapse I get to have the non c-bound time?

Who cares if there is a violation of SR in some alternate reality and
if we average over all realities the *** moves slowly?

So that's the real story.  Multiple World is ALREADY HAPPENING, FOR SURE,
at the subatomic level.  And there is zero evidence that anything ever
changes that, as you change scale.

There's also zero evidence that i can pass through closed slits even
though I am made up of particles that do, Don.

"Conceptually impossible" is a feature of the map, not the territory.
MW is a conceptualization that explains all the experimental data clearly.

I don't like phony conceptual theories because mine are typically far
simpler.

My explanation is that photons are adjacent in an unseen physical
dimension.  If we use standard pythagorean geometry, it is easy to see
that c is not violated.  It just appears to be.

I hope you realize that you, and the clocks, are made up of photons too..
It's not something photons "do" to you.  It's what photons _are_, and you
happen to be made up of them.

Don, this is crazy.  Photons can do things that aggregates of them
cannot do.

This is inarguable.  Collections of particles do not have the same
properties as the particles.  There was either a cat in the box or
not, not a fucking cat wave function.  Observation does not collapse
cats and when you throw them at walls, they do not pass through.

unless you're not looking.

-
.