Re: Well, rightards? Was: Placebo effect was: kenoki footpads

<hal@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:qner44l3ann8p31j760jsjabiok99o6nft@xxxxxxxxxx
On Mon, 9 Jun 2008 18:28:42 -0400, "David L. Burkhead"
<dburkhead@xxxxxxx> wrote:


No, the difference is that he's actually _understanding_ what the
article, and others on the subject, actually say rather than trying to
"interpret" them to fit with your preconceived views.

I don't have to try to "interpret" what they say. Their conclusions
are very clear.

There conclusions _are_ very clear--they're just not what you think they
are.

So just what exactly is your contention (other than to argue with
anything I say no matter what)? Are you claiming AD drugs are
effective in the treatment of depression? If so, then please cite
your study. Don't forget to include margin of error of the study.
Pharmacology reports from the manufacturer of the drug doesn not count
as drugs companies have proven they are willing to fudge results to
keep their drugs on the market.

Ah, yes, the old double standard where Hal asks for what he doesn't
provide.

The study you cited would be entirely adequate if you actually
understood it. All it says, really, is that for short term treatment of
mild cases of depression, placebos work as well as the specific
antidepressant drugs covered (which is only a small subset of all the
medications on the market). This is exactly what one would expect since for
that kind of treatment simple counciling or other kinds of non-medication
therapy is also found to be highly effective. As the severity of the
depression increases, these alternate methods (such as placebos) become less
effective. You keep repeating that, so I know you read it. As the severity
of the depression increases, the placebos become less effective. The
medication, however, does _not_ become less effective.

In severe cases of depression, or in longer term treatment--exactly the
kind of cases where medication is more likely to be prescribed--the
medication shows a distinctly greater effect than placebos according to the
study you cited. You twist and turn trying to make something out of it
being the placebos being less effective in those cases rather than the
medication being more effective, but that's the point: In cases of severe
depression the placebos become less effective but the medication does not.
That, right there, is a clear difference between placebos and the actual
medication. And that's what's said right there in the study you cited.

Your own cite defeats your case.

--
--
David L. Burkhead -- Cold Servings, a webcomic
mailto:dburkhead@xxxxxxx -- http://www.coldservings.com
http://www.cafepress.com/coldservings <- OSHA for criminals

"People sleep peaceably in thier
beds at night only because rough
men stand ready to do violence
on their behalf"
George Orwell


.

Relevant Pages

  • Re: Well, rightards? Was: Placebo effect was: kenoki footpads
    ... effective in the treatment of depression? ... mild cases of depression, placebos work as well as the specific ... these alternate methods (such as placebos) become less ... medication, however, does _not_ become less effective. ...
    (rec.martial-arts)
  • Re: Well, rightards? Was: Placebo effect was: kenoki footpads
    ... question DO work for patients at the extreme end of depression. ... depression in their response to drug. ... Placebos are less effective in severely depressed patients. ... Thus, instead of saying that the medication doesn't work, it rather says ...
    (rec.martial-arts)
  • Koochers Krazy Kooks looking for a few good suckers to RAPE
    ... them to perform only AS WELL AS BUT NOT BETTER THAN placebos. ... this idea though I would not limit it to psychotherapy. ... the depression will return when the medication is ... But medication is not a permanent solution. ...
    (sci.psychology.psychotherapy)
  • Re: Anti-depressants barely...
    ... them to perform only AS WELL AS BUT NOT BETTER THAN placebos. ... this idea though I would not limit it to psychotherapy. ... the depression will return when the medication is ... But medication is not a permanent solution. ...
    (sci.psychology.psychotherapy)
  • Re: Antidepressants (was: noodling request: Faustian bargains)
    ... depression. ... of Prozac, which is the only antidepressant I've taken). ... being able to function without the medication eventually. ... medication, some need drugs with much worse side effects, and some ...
    (rec.arts.sf.composition)
Loading