Re: Fa Jing
- From: Renli <oliver.richman@xxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2008 01:39:13 -0700 (PDT)
On Apr 30, 1:37 pm, xiaou2 <xia...@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
Hi Xiaou2! Old thread, old post, but thanks for following up - the NG
was getting a little dry.
Actually, the saying comes from master Luo Ji Hong's Chen style
lineage, I believe - When I first heard it I didn't understand the
meaning either. It means that, for tai chi, you must create the tai
chi body and then operate it for as long as possible. You do not
"switch on" and "switch off" the tai chi body suddenly. Why would you
do that. There are lots of ancillary / implied meanings as well; such
that a "straight jab" or a "hook" are not present in tai chi in the
way you imply they are in the above.
Pretty funny. You replied with smoke and mirrors. Your post has
no substance or stance at all. No meaning. No real knowledge.
Its typical of a person who is a scammer or spews BS.
This is in reference to me saying "In general it cannot be attached in
the manner you speak. As the saying goes, Tai Chi is like a mountain
of treasure; when you are there you are very rich, but when you are
not there you have nothing." This in itself was a comment on you
saying you could just attach these skills to (say) a jab or straight
punch. You told me I was wrong.
My response was intended to explain to you that you can't just attach
these things to a "move". Say, a straight punch. A straight punch is a
technique. In the IMA of the ilk I am discussing, you cannot do this.
It is not *possible* because that is not how those arts work. That is
how arts like wing chun work. Well, I am sorry you feel my post had no
substance, but I had anticipated that, and that's why I was using the
quote from Master Liang - in a very buddhist "thus I have heard"
fashion. In short, your argument is not with me, but with Master
Liang. Yes, I was endorsing his opinion, however he is more skilled
than I am so I must defer this disagreement you have with what I said
to him.
If you ask, I will explain to you why *I* believe this, independant of
the Sifu Liang quote, but somehow I don't think you are interested in
what I have to say on that subject. So let's bring this aspect of the
thread to a close; In the future I'll indicate if I agree or disagree
with you but this particular branch of the discussion is probably
over.
Unless of course you want to explain yourself beyond telling me I know
nothing.
You obviously do not understand the Context of the meanings you
describe. This is exactly why the arts are in danger. Its from
people like yourself.. making up thier own ideas about what they
THINK the Sifu was trying to tell them. You have No clue at
all man. Really.. its shocking how bad your botching the
meanings up.
As indicated above; you can feel free to explain the "real meaning",
otherwise while I understand and respect your position I remain in
disagreement.
You cant hit someone with Jello and have it do much damage.
(You cant hit someone with a loose body and loose hand)
The body must go from a jello/liquid state - to a solid rock state,
within an instant. Flowing water, to Crashing wave.
Sure, I can agree with that. Makes sense.
Tai Chi in its limited presentation may not show you a jab or
hook.. yet, it uses Fa Jing at any range.. and with any of its
attacks. With a palm, It can be used from 'point blank' (no drawback),
and still crack your ribs.
Yep, lots of such moves are in the form. One of my favourite are elbow
strikes, because they can come out at many points of the form ^^
The delivery (Jab, Hook, kick, palm, push...etc) is only the wrapper.
The real power of Fa Jing is not so much the wrapper... but the moment of
the unity of the body tighten. (in most simplistic terms)
I disagree with referring to it in this way, but sure, I guess you
could say that if you took a snapshot of the delivery it would
represent a moment of the unity as you describe.
I do recall you were talking about Wing Chun; That's fine, I think
they have straight jabs in Wing Chun (in fact I know they do) but
that's to be expected, there 2 different arts.
There is minimal difference between a deep stance punch and a
straight punch. Its because you do not understand the concepts...
that you see only differece, and not the true connections.
I disagree, as above, you are free to explain why the are the same, or
how they are the same. I will listen, but until you do this I must
remain in disagreement.
Its because you do not understand the truth of Fa Jing, that you can
not see that it can be used in any other way than they way that someone
told you. And, I pretty much doubt that you can do it right at all...
because without the understanding of the concepts.. I dont think its
possible to attain the correct results.
I admit it's true I might not understand the truth of Fa Jing.
However, until you explain this truth I don't think it's worthwhile to
discuss. Other than that, I can fajing from intention which is not
something I can demonstrate so I don't usually bring it up, but it
certainly is beyond your ability to determine this from me stating I
can do it. Anyways, again, you're welcome to explain the truth of Fa
Jing, I'll listen.
You are a mere copycat with little real skill and knowledge.
Well, actually, I can do this stuff for real - i've been involved with
tai chi for 17 years now.
Sorry, but I dont really have much faith in you because of your
poor chosen words.
Ok
Post a video of your Fa Jing demo.
No.
You have made
pokes at Earl M. ...yet, I dont think you have anything on his vids. I
dont think you are capable of 100th of the power that Earl can dish out.
Are you aware that Earle has gone against his teacher's Tai Chi
transmission? What he teaches is vastly different from what his Tai
Chi teacher has taught him. He basically disregarded it and made up
(or took from other arts). It's easy enough to prove. Just consider
some of the earle videos posted here and compare them to what he wrote
in his book "Dim Mak: Death Point Striking". I don't need to say
ANYTHING about Earle, Xiaou. It's self-evident to anyone who
investigates the claims Earle makes. Earle doesn't even know who his
teacher's teacher was, or what art he did. So I think you should think
twice when accusing me of making statements about Earle, the
statements in question were made by Earle himself(!)
But I will say this - I dislike the tone
you've adopted with the word "mere", as if to suggest I am somehow
beneath you (regardless of the fact or not if I am a copycat). I'd
urge you to have a little bit more humility, that's all.
You speak to me as if you are above me, and then get upset when I
set you straight, in that you are wrong.
You didn't set me straight, you told me I was wrong and you didn't
explain yourself.
Yes, I have an issue with that. If you want to tell me I'm wrong, fine
- I'd appreciate knowing why. Everything I have ever said I have
backed up with quotes, references, cites, whatever. And here you come
saying I am just plain wrong, with nothing to support what you're
saying? No, I don't think so Xiaou. You're going to have to do a
little better than that if you want me to change my mind. I do respect
your opinion, it's just that if you want me to listen to what you say
you're going to have to come up with something real besides the fact
you don't think I am any good. That's great, really, but it isn't
authoritative.
In the arts, there is a great deal that I do not know. There are a
great number of people who are better than me. Yet, there are things
I know that for pure fact. Because Ive lived it, and proved it.
Sure, I can see where you're coming from.
To listen to someone tell me that Im wrong, when they have such
poor understandings of the main concepts.. is too much that I will not
stand for it.
*shrug* well, thats why I was investigating what you know, like when I
asked you this:
Have you read the huangdi neijing?
Nope. But Ive KO'd 3 people on separate occasions, with a single,
limited power, Fa Jing Strike.
That's great. Problem is, just because you KO'd 3 people doesn't mean
you were doing what is talked about in the classics. There are MANY
side doors to this art, Xiaou2. And it's quite funny for you to accuse
me of holding a poor interpretation of the theories and concepts when
you haven't even taken a look at the huangdi neijing. Who do you think
you're talking to, anyways? :-)
A year? Shortcuts? Dude, the 100 day methods have been known for
MILLENIA. Don't come here with your BS if you haven't even read the
classics. It's one thing to NOT KNOW - it is another to be IMPUDENT,
which you are. Try being more humble.
Firstly, Its you who come here to spout BS... not me.
2ndly, I dont have to read a book to tell me what I
already know.
Well obviously what you know is quite wrong because you're talking
years and I'm talking months. Who has the shortcut, Xiaou2?
I have respect for Mike, as Ive seen a vid of his, as well as
read and understood his well typed replies here. Unlike you, he seems to
have a good grasp on the mechanics and concepts of Tai Chi.
I really dont see you as a real artist. I feel you are merely
a book reader with a fanciful imagination. Or maybe a teen with limited
arts training. Certainly not a skilled artist. More like a con-artist.
I'm sorry you feel that way, it's a good thing for me that what you
are saying is based on pure speculation, ehh? :)
-
.
- References:
- Re: Fa Jing
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