Re: Home Invasions

Herbert Cannon wrote:
"suds mcduff" <sudsmcduff@xxxxxxxxx> wrote in message news:Rm3nj.83380$K27.10627@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Herbert Cannon wrote:
"suds mcduff" <sudsmcduff@xxxxxxxxx> wrote in message news:1h1nj.81797$L%6.50691@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
----Well, first off, I have a dog outside, quite a little noisemaker he is, too. I doubt anyone would be able to approach the house without my notice during waking hours.
Yup my neighbor has three big dogs. He thought they would scare off burglars. Burgled the house at 9am in broad daylight without a bit a trouble.
---I thought we were talking home invasions,
Home invaders are far worse than burglars.
----No ***? The guys that burgled your buddies house was B&E, not home invasion as we were discussing, right?

The point was being made he was relying on three big dogs to stop this.
----And, the point being made is that he would have been alerted to intruders had he been home.

I rather doubt it. Those dogs bark at everything.

---Sure.Guard dogs are ineffective. If you say so.

not B&E's.The dogs are an
early warning system when you're at home.
I like dogs; but they are dogs. That means they are a dumb animal. Too much reliance on a dumb animal is dumb.
----Yet, people have been relying on dogs for millenia. People are dumb.
Hell yes a lot of them are.
----Sure, dogs are useless.....

Oh sorry I did not know there were not a lot of dumb people. Next time I see someone doing something dumb I will try to realize what a smart person he or she is.

---And you've been arguing this entire thread that dogs are useless for alerting the owners to intruders, against the advise of almost all home defense experts and the experience of millenia.

Dogs are much less of a problem than people think. His will bark at
racoons, possums, cats etc. Not a reliable warning device.
----Mine has a different bark for cats and delivery trucks and such. When someone approaches the house, he has a way more urgent bark.
Almost panicky.
Sure the dog does.
---Is this sarcasm? If it is, I'm guessing you don't own a dog....
I have owned several and they were part of the family.
----and was he a house dog or a yard dog? He never alerted you to intruders?

Both. Nope.

----You must be extremely inattentive, bordering on deef not to recognize a dog barking at an intruder. I would guess you believe man domesticated dogs to fetch sticks and such. Anyones house I have visited where the dog didn't know me, it would have to be sequestered in another room it made so much noise.

He may panic at some other disturbance too.

---OK, Derb you may advise everyone to ignore what almost every home defense expert I've ever read or heard has advised. Hey, everybody, guard dogs are useless, according to Cannon! Jesus H Christ.
You really are not very bright are you, Dudsie. I can take out your dog in a wink. What do you think a well practiced prison con can do to your dog faster than I? And they do practice.
----Prison cons would probably have no reason to attack my non descipt home, and I can assure you, the dog would make noise before he's "taken out".

Dudsie, how many times have you heard that sort of thing never happens here?

---I can assure you a dog would bark loudly at any intruder. If you're too dense to know the difference between your dog barking at a coon or an intruder, fine, don't keep a dog.

Second, I keep the doors locked when we go
to bed, they'd have to make some noise breaching the doors.
Not enough. If you read the article I posted they came in with an alarm ringing. Noise breaching doors may or not wake you up.
---I'm a light sleeper. Between the dog and the door noise, I'd wake up.
Until one day when you are really really tired from hard work. Particularly hard work that you are not used to.
----At my stage of life, I work smart, not hard....
Hard work is hard work. Are you now telling Murpy's law does not exist? It does.
----No, Derb, harder work doesn't make me sleep any deeper.

Ok -You ever had to take any pain pills after an operation dudsie?

----I haven't had any operations yet. Don't remember the last time I was prescribed any pain pills stronger than ibuprofen. The odds are extremely slight that I would sleep through someone breaking the door in.

Life is
full of surprises. Nothing is always the same.
I also posted about
a friend of mine that was having a hard time waking up when he could hear voices in his house which obviously did not belong there. His alarm was ringing also.

Third, I
keep a loaded .20 riot shotgun handy.
Cumbersome for a house; but better than an empty hand.
----Better than shooting a round through the wall and shooting someone in another bedroom.
If that is your fear, use frangible ammunition in a pistol
----I like the hit probability of the riot gun better.
Ok but remember it is still a cumbersome item in a house.
----Nonsense. The hit probability and penetration quality more than makes up for a 28" overall length. And, nothing puts more lead in the air than a pump shotgun....

The riot gun has a pistol grip and short barrel. 6
shot magnum shells have a great pattern.
Not bad at all. Like I said it beats an empty hand; but still a bit cumbersome.
---It may also serve as a club as a last resort.
There should be no last resort. If there is it is because someone has grabbed your barrel and you are fighting over the gun. So keep the barrel down not up.
----No, derb, anyone that has any experience with stick fighting can use a "long" (28" lol) gun as a weapon. Ever heard of a *** stroke, slash or jab ?

If you have to use a shotgun as a stick you are very bad with the shotgun.

---You don't have to be good with a shotgun. That's the point.

Keeping the barrel down prevents you from having to use it as stick or club. You get to use it as a shotgun. It is taught everywhere.

---That's what "last resort" means. Why do they teach these tactics in the armed forces?

"While limited in range, the multiple projectiles typically used in a shotgun shell provide increased hit probability unmatched by other small arms:
25 yards for buckshot and 50 yards for slugs.
and how far away from home invaders are you going to be? 8 ft? 10 ft? 20 ft at most?

As far as I can get.

----Pretty sorry dodge. If someone's entered your home, I doubt the range will be more than 8-12 ft.

from:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Combat_shotgun
From a shotgun expert that taught the tactical shot gun class. No need to look anything up.
I wonder if I could get it fitted with a bayonet, like the trench guns of WW1? Did you know they were so lethal, the German's complained they should be banned from warfare?
Yup I did.
----In light of that fact, I'd say riot type shot guns are superior for home defense.

Supposedly.

"While limited in range, the multiple projectiles typically used in a shotgun shell provide increased hit probability unmatched by other small arms"

However they are cumbersome to push around corners and through
doorways. Great for static defenses. However, someone may have to go get his kids etc.


A shotgun could be hard to handle in those circumstances.

----A .20 gauge at 28" overall is extremely easy to handle in any circumstance. The .410 even more so. The .410 with .000 shells has more firepower than a .357 handgun at close range, according to wiki.

In fact, after further research, I may go for the mossburg model 500 HS410,
You could even consider Taurus's the Judge. I prefer the recoil operated Benelli over the Wilson pump.
---Sounds expensive.

I dont bet my life on cheap.

--- My CA bulldog's cheaper than any S&W handgun of the same frame, yet will do the job just as well. A $300 shotgun is as good at defense as a $1000 one.


I just need an relatively inexpensive, yet
reliable, model for home defense, that the little woman could handle as well. The .20 is a little too big for her. Mossbergs seem to fit the bill.

Home Security model

The model 500 HS410, or "Home Security" model, is only available in .410, and is specifically designed for defensive use. It comes with a youth sized stock,

(get it in wood and cut off the stock to make a pistol grip-SM)

a vertical foregrip with, in some versions, a built in laser sight, and a special muzzle brake and spreader choke on an 18.5 inch (47 cm) bead sight barrel. The .410, while by far the least powerful common shotgun chambering, still generates energy in excess of a .357 Magnum, and the spreader choke produces wider patterns, as well as less chance of wall penetration, in the short ranges to be expected in a defensive situation. This model is targeted at the novice user, who needs a simple, easy to use yet effective defensive weapon, and is packaged with an introductory video covering use and safety.[1]

At a recent gunshow they had .000 shells for a .410....

Place it where you
have to be standing up when you take it out.
---No, I don't keep it under the bed.
The reason for this is so you are awake when you pick it up. Tip from John Farnham.
----Mine's two steps away.
Then you are standing.
Fourth, they would probably choose
my neighbor's houses to invade, as, like most hispanics, they have turned their homes into Mediterranean palaces, my home is non-descript in comparison.
Dont count on it.
---The odds are the richer looking houses without a dog will be targeted.
The odds maybe; but my neighbor house is a very small one, with three large dogs, compared to a lot of them in this subivision and they hit him.
---Something made his house look vulnerable, then.
Yeah no one was home.
---It was that obvious?

It is obvious when no one is home. No cars under the carport.

----His neighbors must be pretty self absorbed.

Fourth, I've lived in a major metropolitan area most of
my life, and I've never been robbed at gunpoint. That might change as I get older and seem more vulnerable, but that's the facts. Nonetheless, I carry a CWP as well.
Get an alarm system and have it monitored.
---I thought you said your buddies house was breached even with an alarm?
It was the alarm that woke him up. Same thing with one of the houses that was featured in the article. Did not stop them.
----Probably won't stop them, but they'll probably only take the easy stuff to grab and haul ass before the cops get there.
Most burglaries are smash and grabs. Problem is as house become harder to burgle in the daytime - they become easier to home invade.
They are getting bolder.
If your alarm is monitored, it alerts the police.
---And, the false alarms will start adding up....
Sorry I have had three false alarms in over ten years.
---Do you live in a major metropolitan area?

Yup I live on the edge of the inner city.
The systems have been
really improved. Not really a problem anymore.
----My buddy has one. He's being taxed by the township for it.

Taxed by the township? That makes no sense. Why is the township taxing him?

---False alarms. They tax everyone with a line to the cops, from what I've been told.


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