Re: More Dim Mak Lunacy

Here's a link to some scientific tests.

http://www.qigonginstitute.org/html/Qi_Press/TaiChi%20Stanford.pdf

GDS, your arguments against the existance of Qi (and Dim Mak) all seem to
come down to arguments against the extremes. Do you agree that a blow to the
solar plexus or lower ribs can temporarily stop you from breathing? Or that
a blow to the carotid artery can cause the carotid sinus barometer to think
that a sudden rise in blood pressure has occured causing the body to
compensate by dropping blood pressure so dramatically that the flow of blood
to the brain decreases enough to cause unconciousnes? How about a rear naked
choke pressing against the carotid arteries and decreasing blood flow to the
brain to cause unconciousness? Can hitting your "funny bone" cause your
whole arm to temporarily go numb and become unusable? These are all examples
of Dim Mak, just not of the "light touch and you die 3 days later" variety.
Do you deny all the other effects because you deny the latter? Does it
matter if a point is identified as a "meridian" or a "nerve plexus" as long
as it works? That does beg the question of how effective the techniques
might be in fighting. Although the mechanism of a knockout punch to the jaw
is fairly well known, you don't see all boxing matches ending with
knockouts. You also don't see that many boxers getting the wind knocked out
of them from a solar plexus hit or floating rib shot. It's hard to get the
right alignment on a moving target who is protecting his vulnerable areas.
In fact, the person who is focused on the knockout punch often loses because
they leave themselves too open while they are looking for that one big hit.
But that doesn't mean you don't train to take advantage of the opening and
go for the floating ribs or the jaw. You just don't train expecting it to
always be a fight ender.

With Tai Chi, everyone seems to make the assumption that the Chi in the name
Tai Chi is the same "Chi" people talk about as energy. Tai "Chi" is a
different character and completely different word that has a similar
pronunciation. In Pinyin (the official way of transliterating Chinese
characters to the english alphabet), Tai Chi should be TaiJi, and Chi
(energy) should be Qi. Do you deny the existance of "flow" experience or
"being in the zone"?. People talk about being hyper aware of their
surroundings and their body working like an effortless machine. They often
feel a merging of action and awareness as though they respond automatically
and unconciously. It's as if they are carried along by the current (hence
"flow") yet are in complete control of the situation. Csikszentmihalyi has
documented this effect very well in Western terms and few high level
athletes would claim it doesn't exist. What kind of machine can you use to
measure it? Can an athlete always call up this peak experience at will?
What can you say is really going on? Perhaps the athlete tapped into their
"Qi" and is using it to guide their physical actions. Qi is just a term used
to describe things for which the West doesn't have an equivalent word.
Should you say Qi doesn't exist because you can't prove no touch knockouts
or Chee fire balls?

As Chas has pointed out, "intent" is important. You might dismiss the idea
because you are thinking of some mystical mental magic being involved.
Instead, think of the brain as having a subconcious super computer. If you
shoot an arrow at a target, you can attempt to conciously control the angle,
how far back you draw the bow, compensate for wind, distance etc. There are
too many variables and you can't control every action directly. Instead, you
can focus on the target, imagine the arrow hitting it dead center (intent)
and let your subconcious super computer make the calculations and adjust the
body. I'm sure almost all of us have had the experience of being unable to
do something because we were "trying" too hard. Usually we are imposing to
much direct control over movements which slows them down and we can't make
adjustments fast enough. Once we "let go" and let the body take over, we are
able to perform flawlessly. When we set a mental "intent" we program the
mind for the outcome we want and it makes a multitude of adjustment to the
body that we are not conciously aware of to help achieve that outcome. If we
strike with the "intent" of hitting through a target, we don't have to know
that maximum velocity is achieved at 80% of the extension of the limb and
that that is when we make contact as opposed to thinking of striking the
surface of the target where we tend to already start slowing down by the
time we make contact because we are near full extension. We program our
subconcious brain by setting our "intent" and then let the subconcious
control the body movements and reactions.

BG









"Greendistantstar" <pde63539Oremovethis@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:snGPi.86$cR5.61@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

"Chas" <chasclements@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:4OSdnWFGC8b5PZPanZ2dnUVZ_h6vnZ2d@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
"Mike" <mkornecki2000@xxxxxxxxx> wrote
Because he can do it and you can't.
You mean because he *says* he can do it.

No, Erle has a long line of people behind him that have been affected by
his skills- as do a number of other people in my experience.
And remember that being able to mitigate the skill to a demonstration
level without hurting the uke is counterintuitive to refining the skills
for use in combat.
Your difficulty is mostly about the explanation, from what I see, and
incorporating GDS' positions.

That's a very good point, Chas. It's one thing to see/experience something
and form an opinion, the explanation is something else again.

When the explanation seems to defy all common sense/logic/physics, that's
what creates issues of credibility.

I can accept the power of internal arts as expressed by Fai Jing, but I
can't accept the explanation if it involves 'chi' and meridians.

The matter could perhaps be resolved by having people like CXW etc submit
to scientifically controlled tests.

A refusal to do so because of metaphysical constraints eg the floor has
poisoned chi or his big toe wasn't aligned correctly would only serve to
deepen the skepticism.
--
GDS

"Let's roll!"




.

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