Re: Embracing Animal Agression

"GreenDistantStar" <GreenDistantStar@xxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
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On Sep 5, 4:11 am, "Wayne Dobson" <nos...@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
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"Wayne Dobson" <nos...@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
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<msk_30...@xxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
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On Aug 29, 11:50 am, "Wayne Dobson" <nos...@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
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On Aug 29, 4:01 am, "Wayne Dobson" <nos...@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
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Most people don't need training to run like a frightened rabbit.
It's a
skill that most are born with.
I was referring to the ability to see the punch coming before it's
too
late. Training makes that an easier skill, allowing you to move
out
of the way and head for the hills.

It's the heading for the hills bit that I was commenting on. Yet
might
consider letting go of the idea that running away is usually the
best
option.

A frightened rabbit is more likely to get nailed once before
turning
tail.

Maybe the rabbit doesn't always have to turn and run. Maybe he can
allow
himself a choice.

I have a choice, which is why I started training. But there's still
something missing that would allow me to put that training into play
in a real-world scenario. That's what I'm looking for.

What's missing is that you're not treating your trainng like the real
world. You get what you train. This is a common problem, even amongst
this great crowd of supposed badasses - there are those amongst us who
train one way, then say they will do something slightly different when
the real thing comes around. No you won't. It doesn't work. You
cannot
rely on something which you haven't actually trained. Telling
yourself
that you're going to do something which you haven't done before, as
you
did, produces predictable results when genuine pressure is added to
the
mix.

You trained yourself to freeze-up in reality, when you froze-up in
training. When I train people, I see to it that at some point, it
becomes
an unpleasent experience - just like a real fight would be. I don't
accept people freezing up on me because I will hit you. The way I
came
up, you either learned to fight or you got your ass beat on a regular
basis. It was an easy choice to make. I call it a choice even though
no-one I ever came across, ever chose the second option. You must
have
been hanging with the hippy crowd.

You might want to stop hanging around those flower-power folk and
start
training with some knuckle-draggers. At least that way, you'll know
what
the difference is between a dancer and a fighter. People who haven't
faced it, can't teach you how to deal with it. Just don't think about
discussing philosophy with them - too many knocks to the head.

You've already received some good advice from others here. Fighting
is
neither pretty, polite nor pleasent. If you want to be those things
all
of the time, forget about ever developing the ability to fight. You
have
a choice to make.

That
is a line that is clear in most peoples' minds. Pacifists live
exclusively on one side, never raising a hand in violence.
Psychopaths on the other, treating everything as a physical
confrontation. Having grown up as a non-violent person, I find
that
non-confrontation is still my core nature.

What are you trying to achieve with this policy?
What am I trying to achieve with what policy?

The policy of being non-confrontational. What does being
non-confrontational do for you? If you can't think of the right
answer,
just make something up, but do answer.

If I have to make something up, I would say that it lets me feel like
I'm in control of myself. By not losing my temper or lashing out at
someone, despite what I may be feeling, I feel like I'm being
disciplined. But what that offers me, I don't know.

Aceptance, maybe? The notion of having to be nice to people trying to
*** with you, is bull***. I suggest you drop it. Passivity will
make
you a target. If you act like a doormat, you'll be stepped on. If
you
act like a football, people will kick you. The more desperately you
let
it be known that you're trying to avoid something, the more people
around
you will take a perverse pleasure in imposing that very thing upon
you.
People are fucked-up like that.

My guess is that you've become increasingly more passive, diplomatic
and
understanding with people, when the judicious use of ill-manners and
ignorance would have served better, until finally losing the ability
to
confront anyone over anything. Does that ring any bells?

Of being less non-confrontational? I don't want to be scared
anymore.
Scared of
hitting someone or being hit.

Run it through your mind of you hitting someone, don't think about
what
you
think will happen, just let it play out and see what does happen, as
if
you
are dreaming.

I have gone over the scene, and imagined a half dozen things I could
have done. I have played them out to various conclusions, from
taking
a verbal stance that ends the situation to an actual physical
confrontation in which he fights back and I lay him out. But, given
how I feel about my ability to put it into reality, it now feels more
like a dream than a plan. Like a fantasy. "I wish I could do..." as
opposed to "I can do..."

Of course it's going to feel like that, because it's not real yet.
It's
a function of sanity for something not real not to feel real. Fear is
just something that you're going to have to learn to act in spite of,
if
you wish to develop a warrior spirit.

So much so that if I
witness an act that I find extremely offensive, I can't say
anything
or react.

What stops you?
Fear.

Fear of what? Again, if you don't know what the real answer is,
invent
one.

Fear of getting hit back. Fear of not winning. Fear of screwing it
up (I know it's a fight and it's never as choreographed as you would
like). Fear of getting hurt.

Then what? Keep going until everything comes out into the open. The
boogeyman loves the dark. You don't have to tell me what those things
are, but be sure that you know. Don't leave any blindspots, because
boogeymen love to lurk in such places.

I have run through the event hundreds of times in my
head since then, ...

And each time, you feel worse, right?
Each time I feel more angry. I feel better about the fact that at
least now I understand why I feel bad. Right after, I felt bad.
Now
I can step back a little and understand why I feel bad and I can
start
to work on those issues. Namely, my failure to act.

This is a really important issue for someone learning how to hurt
others.
It is acceptable under the right conditions, but until you get clear
in
your
head precisely what those conditions are, you're not going to feel
comfortable about what you are learning or if you're ready to use
it.

If you had asked me Friday morning what I would do if X happened, I
would have said that I would react physically. If you had asked me
an
hour before it happened, I would have said the same thing. But when
push came to shove, I choked. It's not a matter of it being a
situation that I hadn't envisioned. I envisioned it. I just didn't
do jack about it.

That's not uncommon. What you did was base a belief on a wish, rather
than on evidence. Wishful thinking doesn't cut it. Learn to
regularly
ask yourself if a cherished belief is based on knowledge, or merely a
wish. Start building the evidence, then you'll be able to trust your
own
conclusions.

Good reply, Wayne. We might disagree about what path the OP needs to
take
to get to where he wants, but your assessment is spot on.

Actually, I now don't see that much disagreement. I sometimes read the
post
of the first person to respond, rather than the original post, when the
title of the thread looks boring and/or it's from someone I don't know.
It's easier to get a summary from whoever first responds, rather than
reading the post, myself. As such, I'm reliant on the first responder,
to
get a gist of the original post. Something went wrong, somewhere, in
this
instance.

Despite my original dismissive attitude towards your assessment, I think
I
have to take some of that back. I believe I did do a degree of
back-peddling, once I got around to reading the original post. I really
thought the whole of your response was complete overkill, until I saw the
extent of the problem, for myself. It's does look very much like he has
had this problem nearly all of his life and he has the whole of that to
undo, he needs to leave that *** dojo, overcome his conditioning and to
take a few doses of "toughen the *** up", which you've already
prescribed.
From inititally reading the remainder of what you edited out, I thought
you
read way too much into what he said, but then having read the whole
thing,
myself, I think not.

The dojo in which he has been dancing around in has indeed done him a
great
disservice. I don't go training to get injured or hurt or to do that to
others, but I do go there for a dose of reality. If I wanted to join a
fantasy world, I would have stayed at home with a pan of magic mushrooms
frying away, in some butter, oil, onions and some seasoning, to taste.

What I still disagree with is that over 25 and it's almost hopeless.
He's
simply suffering from a bad habit that needs to be retrained. Though
most
adults have difficulty stopping from biting their finger-nails, once the
habit has set in, or stopping themselves from stuffing another pie down
their cake-hole, not even deterred by their gut jutting over their
belt-buckle. So, a pessimistic view is at least understandable.

It's not the easiest thing in the world to do, but it is doable. I think
he's received alot of good advice here. I think if he takes the various
bits of advice offered, he'll have a working strategy to begin with. As
long as he stops hanging with fantasists and starts hanging with people
who
look for some sort of evidence before they start beliving ***, who help
push him instead of accepting mediocrity, he digs deep and sticks at it,
he'll end up a changed person.

--
Wayne Dobson
AKA "Dobbie The House Elf"

Thanks for that. The '25' was just an arbitrary age....my point was
that behaviours learned at an early age can be mighty difficult to
turn around, and past a certain point perhaps impossible, and 25
seemed about right, though obviously different from person to person.

The key phrase is "learned behaviour". There is no age at which a habit
cannot be broken. If you are able to form a new memory, you are able to
change a habit. Despite the fact that most people who set out to do what he
is aiming for, will probably fail, does not need to reflect on his chances.
He doesn't have to allow himself to become most people. A stat doesn't have
anyone's name on it. He has a choice to make of either to beat the
statistics, or become one; aim high or languish at the bottom of a bell
curve.

I could have gone on at length about the many pitfalls in such an
undertaking, but one cannot hope to hit a target by looking at how many ways
there are to miss it. He just needs two main things: the knowledge of what
to do and the discipline to apply it.

--
Wayne Dobson
AKA "Dobbie The House Elf"


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