Re: And yet more shiao jiao clips

FWIW
1. Approximately 2000+ years ago, among the waves of immigrants to the
Japanese archipelago were Malay-Polynesian folks. Details of the culture
are unknown, but it apparently really permutated once there.
2. More recent immigrants were from the Korean peninsula, followed by the
Yamato people who were probably Turkish horse culture. The latter brought
weaponry and fighting styles that were common on the mainland.
3. Naturally, a core of this was Chinese culture, and surely included
wrestling, which developed into sumo.
4. The peak of Chinese influence was in the Nara period, but it continued
(although less and less up to the Tokugawa period. As for fighting arts, it
is unlikely that, on a technical level, the Chinese methods were very
significant from the Heian period. Japan was a warrior culture, well suited
to develop on it's own. Technically.
5. On a philosophical, intellectual, and esoteric basis, the Chinese
influence was pervasive - through Taoism, neo-Confucianism and Buddhism
(Shingon, in particular). Undoubtedly, this included the elements that were
later referred to as aiki, which was a substrate of study in some
traditions.
6. Jujutsu was well established (mostly close-combat, grappling with
weaponry), well before Chin Gempin. Jujutsu, which wasn't even called that
then, had two roots: sumo (which can be traced back to continental
sources), close combat on the battlefield (which was a native development,
though, if you really push it, is, of course, related to sumo).
7. Chin Gempin either added a lot or a little, but if you look at the
schools that developed from the men he taught - they are not remarkably
different, in purpose, gross motor movement, etc., than other jujutsu
schools with no links. It is probable that he taught these more subtle
skills, which, BTW, were rife in non-martial contexts in Buddhist groups,
with Taoism, carpetbagged, so to speak, as it was illegal, in both Buddhist
groups and mountain ascetics.
8. In the Tokugawa period, there was an endless fascination with Chinese
esoteric material, to develop power, subtlety and control of mind. Such
texts were passed around, studied, etc. Therefore, almost all ryu had a
substrate of Chinese doctrine woven throughout - on the subtle level, not on
the level of gross technique.
9. This is universally known and discussed in koryu circles - among
non-Japanese, who have really studied as well as Japanese. The esoteric
bases of ryu-ha are either purely Chinese stuff; Chinese stuff that was
altered by the Japanese; Chinese stuff that was translated into Shinto
terminology; AND, purely Japanese stuff, mostly around exorcism,
purification and other shamanistic practices.
10. In the Tokugawa period, Chinese input was limited. On a documentary
level, it was quite wide, but in their restriction on foreign contact, the
government did restrict, greatly, the movement of Chinese.
11. The Kokugaku, which Mike has referred to, had no effect that I am
aware, on martial arts circles. This was mostly concerned with Buddhist
temples. There was NO suppression whatsoever regarding information about
Chinese doctrines within Japanese martial arts circles.
12. Jujutsu, in the Tokugawa period, developed more and more into
grappling. The importance of weaponry vastly diminished. Sometime in the
late Edo, with jacket wrestling techniques becoming more and more important,
people started using fireman's jackets, heavy quilted cotton or hemp wear
(kiekko gi, really), that, unlike their kimono, wouldn't rip. These jackets
had been around for a long time - and YES, the original pattern might have
come from China, long/long ago, but the overlapping kimono pattern was
native Japanese wear for 1000+ years.
13. Kano codified general jujutsu practice, in the mid-late 1800's. He did
this, as a student, from the ages of 17-21, where he was intensely studying
two ryu. These two ryu did have, in their doctrines, at least, information
derived from Chinese sources. As for direct contact, however, this was not
a period of much Chinese/Japanese contact. Could he have seen shuai-chiao.
Maybe there was some kind of exhibition, sort of like the "Shaolin monks"
first tour in the 1980's. Whatever there was, such things must not have
been very important, because there is no documentary evidence, in
newspapers, etc., that I'm aware of that lists such things. Could he have
seen books or heard about shuai-chiao? Sure, why not? But Skoss is right,
that Kano showed a desire to universalize information - why would he hide
that one bit of input, if it was significant?
14. Aiki, in the form discussed here, was not part of the Kodokan.
Han***'s book actually reveals this. The teachers within the Kodokan that
he refers to are described, more or less, as having brought something from
elsewhere into their practice. Something that people were aware of, but
most not interested in. (Solo breathing practice not being very much fun).
As for Kunishige, he was NOT Kodokan, which is clear in the text. One other
interesting point that Harrison makes is, in evaluating his skill, he puts
Kunishige at the level of a 4th dan (quite high in the Kodokan, at the
time). In other words, there was a distinction in the grappling skills that
he could do - how well the man could do an osotogari, for example - and
these other skills he also had.
15. That aiki training was not part of the Kodokan is why Takeda Sokaku was
so revolutionary when he started touring, AND why some of the greatest
judoka "jumped the fence," and quietly studied with Ueshiba (Kotani being
one of them). Even the top people - like Kotani - couldn't get such
information in their own back yard.
What we are left with, in my opinion is this:
A. The idea that there was a suppression of the influence of China on
Japanese martial arts is a straw-dog argument - not correct.
B. That the influence was pervasive, not on a technical level, but on an
"esoteric" and intellectual level, is commonly known.
C. That the roots of sumo are continental is well-known
D. That Kano, directly, created judo in imitation of shuai-chiao that he
might have heard of, and might, unlikely, have seen in his teen years, is
very dubious.
E. BTW - in the 1930's, after the Japanese invaded China, there are
accounts of fights between shuai chiao and judo men, which are treasured
stories in some shuai-chiao groups.

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