Re: And yet more shiao jiao clips


"Charlie" <judoman@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:91ff829spr1gcj3jpejmrpt4n6gt2lh83s@xxxxxxxxxx
On Wed, 7 Jun 2006 10:16:43 -0600, "Mike Sigman"
<mikesigman@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
You keep challenging him to debate that stuff with you, but its a
_distraction_ from the main issue you brought up 'from what Judo was
created?'.



Yeah, but you've begun changing what I said, Charlie. Now you've put words
in my mouth about Kano.... and that's typical of what has happened in the
past with the judo guys, the shots about how little I know about Judo, etc.,
changing the argument to something else, etc. Meantime, from the other
side, I'm beginning to get the "of course Japanese martial arts were
affected by the Chinese".... the whole argument is being shifted under me.
My original stance was that judo derives from shui jiao. In fact, even
though Berge tries to laugh it off, Japanese historical documents credit
Chen Yuan Yun with bringing the "ju" arts (that includes "ju"do,BTW) to
Japan. Chinese sources say Chen showed the Japanese parts of shuai jiao.
Meik Skoss and Eric Berge carry no weight whatsoever compared to the
historical Japanese documents.... the importance of those Chinese references
in many historical Japanese documents is heavily played down by the
Japanese, but that's a recent trend started in the 1800's; a trend that
started with the Kokugaku. If some of these present-day "experts" want to
trivialize Gempin, the temple built to honor him, the "Coversations with the
Ancestors", etc., they need to explain why they know more than the people
who wrote the records. At best all they can do is try to trivialize the
record... they can't get rid of it, nor can they prove that they're bona
fide and academically-trained historians.

FWIW

Mike


.

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