Re: The Fuhrer Principle

"Badger North" <young_forest@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote
> The reason is that they got spanked in the courts last time, and are
> trying the exact same thing under a different name... for which they
> quite rightly got spanked again.

That's the nature of legalistic disputes. The entire position of the
atheists is legalistic- they certainly have no popular support for their
views. The tortured reasoning that finds a 'religious' viewpoint in any idea
about origin, and wants to exclude it by fiat, is simply insupportable.

> Again and again, ID's proponents have said it is creationism. Taking
> a book about creationism, and substituting the word God with
> 'designer' doesn't make it any less religious.

There is no prohibition against 'religious' practice- in fact, it's
protected. The only prohibition is against establishing a State Church- that
is to say to cert a particular version of ID. That's what's prohibited, not
any view that science finds offensive somehow, but can't disprove/prove.

> And since you've admitted that ID isn't scientific, why is it being
> pushed into science curricula?

Didn't say 'ID isn't scientific' except as regards the failure of science.
Atheists have sought to exclude the very real options of ID for their own
moral reasons- little or nothing to do with 'science'.

> As in 'what happened before the Big Bang'?

Not so much as what the Event was- the difference between a Big Bang and the
Word.

> Not explicitly, no. But, since ID is creationism, and very
> specifically Christian creationism, it's pretty easy to connect the
> dots.

strawman-
it's as easily said; science is atheism; pretty easy to connect the dots-
a competing belief system is a religion, by your own definition.

> As mentioned in the link I provided last post, Phillip Johnson, the
> 'father' of ID, "equates theistic evolution (which would include most
> of Christianity) with atheism because of its acceptance of evolution."

It would, as well, include any belief system that didn't think this was all
a happy accident.
That's what it boils down to, and your side has no more proof than does ID,
and is more defined as a 'State Church' than any other belief system in
modern times.

> Science doesn't give a hot hairy damn if there's a god out there
> winding up the big spring on the universe and letting it run. Doesn't
> matter an ounce if there is one at all - science works totally
> independent of belief or lack thereof.

Well good for you-
and we don't care that you abdicate the question- we've got it covered for
you.

> Sure, if you don't mind humans being created whole cloth instead of
> evolving from previous hominids.

I see the spark of intelligence as defining the difference between hominids
and not-hominids. There is also a Biblical perspective that not all hominids
are 'sons of God', so that further limits what 'human' may mean.
Not even most Christians believe in 24 hr. 'days' for Creation- and biblical
scholars present a whole nother perspective about 'earth ages' and what
defines being 'created in the image of God'.
And there are utterly non-christian belief systems that acknowledge an
intent to the Universe rather than some statistical manipulation that cites
a remote possibility to 'accident' and depends on Bill's Blade for it's
entire logical support.

Chas


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Relevant Pages

  • Re: AiG goes after Francis Collins
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    (talk.origins)
  • Re: Index Falsehoods
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  • Re: Faith, Reason, God and Other Imponderables
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  • Darwins god
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  • Religion and evolution
    ... God has always been a puzzle for Scott Atran. ... about religion ever since - why he himself no longer believes in God ... something beyond the reach or understanding of science. ...
    (uk.philosophy.humanism)
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