Re: One Inch Punch
- From: xiaou2 <xiaou2@xxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Thu, 15 Dec 2005 14:35:04 GMT
>>That is because neither of those examples are correct. We are talking
>>about what happend INSIDE the object, Not how far they travel. We are
>>changing the energy so that it explodes internally, rahter than just
>>go in one direction thru the target. So, the energy will do massive
>>damage in one internal spot instead.
> physics dictates an action and reaction law. so how can you change a
> force direction by stopping the object that causes the reaction?
If done correctly, the forces are much greater. More force
released per time unit... so, that force is too much to be
dissapted in one direction only. It expands thru the now tightened
material in all directions. Wider dispertion, because of the sheer
amount of energy released in that short time.
>>If you hit something and tighten all the muscles at that moment.. you
>>have basically stopped yourself and changed your mass and movment into
>>pure shockwave energy.. instead of just more momentum
> first let us define shockwave. it is the front of a force created by
> incompresibility of normally compressible object, which happens in 1.
> explosions, 2 supersonic flight etc.
> now, how will there be a shockwave if there is no force behind it? if
> the jet suddenly stop, will the shockwave continue out in front of it?
You arnt making sence as that example does not mirror what is happening.
A better example:
Bumper Cars. If you ram into a person, keeping your bdy loose.. you will
do ok transfer of power to the other car.
Next: As you are about to impact, slide your body forwards quickly.. so
that your full range of motion is exausted as you at the same time hit the
other car. This time, you will see that youve managed to make a much
greater force. Youve used internal components to do it.. Your body
acting like the mucles tightening. The muscles tightening all at once
create a force that is in addition to the already strong collision.
If you were tightened before the hit.. basically all the way forwards
and not able to compress.. you will hit harder than if you were loose..
but, its not adding anymore power to the collision. You are just
becomming one with the car structure.
To add the weight slide really amplifies the power surge. A shockwave
of energy. Well maybe not so much a shockwave cause bumper cars do not
move fast enough ; )
> meaning, for the shockwave to be continually produced, you need some
> force behind it. that is the follow thru of a punch.
In a punch, you never create a continual shockwave. You will have a
strong continual "push".. but thats about it. Once your fist hits a solid
target, it goes too slow to keep up a shockwave effect.
dosnt even matter, cause most people cant get enough power to make an
initial shockwave hit... let alone a continual one. Driving thru the
target does not count unless you have jets attached to them ;)
BUT... the hand
> can go only so much so you have to stop somewhere. normally, it is
> only possible to hit an oponent to a dept of 6 inches and it is
> enought if you caught him perfectly, otherwise hed roll with it.
Well, If you are push-punching.. you actually could go so deep as to make
him air-borne as he looses his root. See Tai Chi pushes. This again does
not mean the punch will be more deadly or powerfull.
>>A simular thing takes place with the hanging bag that I filled with
>>metal BB's. If you hit it slowly, the bbs will conform arroud your
>>fists. Hit it very fast, and they have no time to move, thus form a
>>solid steel object.
> and i have no objection here.
I should have added, hit it fast, and tighten upon connect. Hitting it
fast alone will not be enough to make it solid as described. A little, but
nothing like the explosive ending.
>>The difference here... is that if you didnt lock your muscles
>>on impact, it would be very hard to have enough speed to make the bag
>>react like that.
> you lock you muscles to make your own hand (or including the body if
> you do it that way) a solid object so the the mass of the whole hand
> will be as one, attacking a single point. if you dont lock, the hand
> will be like a spring absobing much of what you want to deliver.
Ive already said that. The difference is, I use the force from the
actual body tighten to make additional energy forces.
>>Also, since the bag will swing it you move it.. you would be
>>accelerating the bag, and your fist will be decelerating. The point
>>where the force is, changes.. becomes weaker and more diffused.
> either way at impact, there will be an acceleration.
You do not want their external body to accelerate. You want the internals
to be scrabled because the force is to great to dissapate. The energy
which normally would Push a person 1ft back.. changes to condensed energy
that causes a 3"+ sphere worth of internal shock.
but if you punch
> slow(push) the acceleration will be more pronounced and felt as
> resistance, whereas if you punch really fast, it will hit hard and
> then pushed out as that force is absorbed by the object that you hit.
> but if you hit fast and stop, you will feel the hit and there will be
> no(little) acceleration but also less transfer of energy to the object
> that you hit.
Again, you are wrong. You get more energy transfer when you tighten
upon connect. Again, you are not stopping - you are greating energy with
the muscles tighten ... and you are transfering it perfectly. Just like a
cue ball hitting another ball.
>>And, most importantly if you are still moving.. that means that your
>>entire body has not locked as 'one piece', and not fully grounded. If
>>that is so, then you are not transfering your entire mass into the
> if you lock yourself into one piece, you will not transfer anything.
> only the hands, body and hips can be locked. the feet moves the mass
> to the target AND push on or follows thru.
If hitting the stomache of a guy, Youd drive about 4" or so into it
untill it stopped compressing.. and his whole body was just about to
uproot.. then when you tighten. Since youve already done the full
compression, and since you will not need a long follow thru.. you can
tighten your legs as well. Though I admit, Im not sure how much the legs
will add because they are usually tight to begin with due to the fact that
you are standing all your weight on them.
if you dont believe me, go
> and video yourself. if you want to lock your whole self, you have to
> be doing a flying kick or puch to hit your target.
Untrue. And btw - the tighten only last a split second.
>>Solid like a cue
>>ball.. will only transfer power rahter than a soccor ball which will
>>have some absorbtion to it.
> it rolls to the target, if you lock up solid you will not be able to
> move.as for the soccer ball, if you follow thru, the moment it expands
> again, it will push away from your kick adding momentum to itself.
If you are already touching the target, you are one with it.. you no
longer need to move. The tighten expands your muscles a bit, and the
surge created seperates you from your target (power transfer).. while doing
A cue ball transfers More power in less time units. A soccor ball might
add power later.. but, its then weakened power.. because its power that was
streamed at less power per fraction of second. Explosive power needs the
highest amount of power available per fraction of a second.
>>The head is hard.. so you can not really dive deep into it. You can
>>however time it so that the neck will bend back a little first - so
>>that it cant absorb as much force when you snap.
> i think we have a different understanding of diving thru like water.
> to me it means not how far the hand can go thru the head but how much
> you should move the head or any particular target. i always hit 6
> inches deep or more if possible.
You think that 6" is the key number, because its placing your strike where
the target would have been.. and, its deep enough in some areas, to reach
past the skin level. However, the faster you can strike, and the more
power you can get per time unit.. and you do not have to go so deep in
say...an area like the forehead. The impact is less than 1" needed, to
cause internal damage to the brain. Pushing 6" thru the head, and you are
not concentrating the force.. but rather just pushing the target backwards.
Its the speed of the Initial power transfer
(first "solid" contact) where the damage is done.
>>It also depends on the targets condition. If they are loose.. you
>>will have to dive deeper to make the material as condensed as
>>possible. If they are tightened.. then you cant drive as deep, thus
> a loose target should not be hit at all. it will make you over-reach
> and expose yourself.
Untrue. Again, if you strike a loose taget fast enough and with enough
force per time unit.. it will act as a solid. You again, do not need to
over-reach if you can generate this fast enough. As stated, this power,
even on the softest body targets can be done at very short distances.
> a tight target have to be hit more solidly to create damage. if you
> are sparring and you failed to block, you tighten the muscle where the
> hit is going to protect the organs inside.at the same time you go with
> the force.
> It seem to me that you dont free spar. if you do, youll know of this
Quite the opposite. Ive sparred a lot. I do agree that a tight body
is more protected.
Funny you should mention 'tighten on impact'. Think of the correlation...
>>In your example, you are stopping on purpose.. but, you are not
>>stopping the same way I describe. You are just Moving into the
>>material and quickly pulling out. Instead, I am not stopping. Im
>>tightening and transfering energy. Its very different.
> yes im stopping on purpose but no, im not pulling out. i merely relax
> and allow my extremeties to recoil back on its own after the energy
> transfer or a miss, preparing to attack again or deffend as the case
> may be.
> and yes i also tighten just before impact to transfer more energy.
Well, then you have used your tighten energy up before the connection.
That is the difference.
Once my punch has transfered, I become loose again.. the fist may move a
bit on it own in a relaxed manor as you describe.
>>Heh, funny. Wallen.. Ive used the punch in combat. The tighten only
>>last a fraction of a second. You will have No problems with a counter
> sory but i dont see anything funny about hitting somebody, even
> without knocking them cold.
I was laughing at the fact that you thought it couldnt be used in combat.
I do not make it a point to hurt people. But if they decide they wish to
try to hurt me with excessive power, and have a bad attitude.. then I give
them a little taste (dizzy) with reduced power.
> if it works for you, then well and good. its just the the inch punch
> is more of a training aide for me than a tool for combat.
IF you preformed it in a way that will produce the power i describe... you
would see its use in combat immediatly.
>>Firstly, You never tighten until youve made impact.
> Just before or you will be late.
Incorrect. You lose the muscle shock power that way. You want perfect
timing so that its at the moment of impact on the solid target. If you are
a split sec late, it will reduce power a little, but since you are deep
into thier body.. the shock forces will work. Do it before the target, and
you lose that shock... as its nowhere near the target body, so cant travel
>>That alone keeps you
>>able to chance 'on the fly'. If the target moved, you just change and
>>move with it. Once you touch, you snap, and recover instantly. Its
>>as fast as
> a blink.
> no you cannot do this. it take almost a quarter of a second to react.
It was an expression. However, the targets entire body will not be able
to dodge, roll, or move out of the way from the end snap. The snap tighten
is "fraction of a second" quick.
>> However, the target that got hit, isnt going to be well. They
>>will be stunnned, unable to return fire for a moment - If - they arnt
>>KO'd, on the ground in pain, or dead.
> If you hit him perfectly yes.if you dont, better be ready for what is
> going to happen next.
In Wing Chun, there can be 2 hits per second. Miss with the 1st somehow,
and .5 seconds or less, and the next is right there.
>>Explosive force does not have to be done from only 1" away. It does
>>not require a setup time - like in the demo. Its instant whenever you
>>want to use it.
>>You can even use it with finger strikes.. or any other type of strike.
>>The principle also applies to kicks.
> this is what i mean when when i said the inch punch is a tool for
> training, not a combat technique. we are talking about the inch punch
> here not the application.
You can do damage from a single inch.. however, In reality, youd want
more distance for more power. Training at one inch gives you the needed
fraction of a second muscle timing needed. If you can time a snap from
that short distance.. you can easily time a longer distance strike. Also
trains for faster accelerations.
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