Re: Explosive Punch - Finally!

>>>
>>> While it's true that a moving fist being stopped in a shorter
>>> distance means a larger impact force, consciously forcing your fist
>>> to stop at a certain point can only be accomplished by applying a
>>> force opposite to its current direction of motion.
>>
>> * Not true. A cars brake does not cause the car to go in reverse
>> when its applied!
>
> You do realize that your body is not constructed the same as a car
> don't you? You don't have brakes applying friction, you have opposing
> muscles providing a counter force.


You do not quite get it.

Get a 4ft rope (if longer, grasp ends at 3ft distance). Grasp each end
with a differnt hand. Place hands next to each other so that the rope is
loose and sagging. Now, As hard and fast as possible.. pull each hand
away from the other with no intention to stop. The rope should SNAP,
and you should feel a strong force when the rope is completely stretched
fully.

The rope 'snap' is energy. You are making energy. The ropes or muscles,
are attached to the framework of the body.. thus when they reach extents,
they cause the entire skeletal frame to conduct that energy.

The problem with the rope trick, is that the energy appears to go
nowhere. Its both left and right.. but not forwards..

But, you have to realize that when you are already moving the
fists in a forward motion, and you then make contact with the
target.. you are making the energy travel into them.

Making several thousand muscle strands tighten all at once, creates
a Lot of force. In fact, it just may be that parts of them are fireing off
in an individually timed sequence - so that its more of a wave that is
created. Basically, hips stop, then torse, then arm..ect. Its to hard to
tell at that speed.

Many people punch hard style. This is where such mucles like in the
arm are already almost all tightened as they are throwing it. Such a thing
limits the whip snap motion, and severely limits the power that can be
generated.


>>You are merely tensing the LOOSE muscle masses all at once,
>> locking them together, and sending a Surge wave of energy flying thru
>> your body - trasmitting thru your fists into the target.
>>
>
> Tensing all your muscles at once is counterproductive. You are
> seizing your body up and reduce the amount of momentum you can
> transfer into your opponent. You only need to be rigid in the
> direction opposite of the way you are moving to strike, so that you
> eliminate as much of the "bounce back" as possible. Seizing up the
> muscles that oppose your motion actually hurts you in this regard.

Ha! Funny. What do you think a Rigid arm is?! Your rigid arm
is rigid because you have tightened the muscles. The difference here,
is that many tighten the muscles in a slower pace, and do it way to
early. Instead, an explosive punch waits to do it till there is
connection with the target, does it instantly, and thus making
the energy rather than wasting it.

You are already going as fast as you can BEFORE you hit the target.

Once you hit the target... in a typical punch, you are doing nothing more
than pushing the target backwards.. which does almost nothing. When youve
hit, you transfered the INITIAL IMPACT COLLISION FORCE, after that, there
is basically nothing left. All you are doing is trying to push the target,
as the target is now moving with the fists, AND the fist is slowing down to
a crawl - even as you THINK you can accelerate thru it.. you are not. Most
all the momentum has vanished as soon as youve made the INITIAL contact.

The damage done after the initial contact - has the reduced speed of
the fist, and the increased speed of the targets mass = the force of a
tennis ball being shot at you from a friends arm at your head. Its
pathetic, and worthless. Its the Initial impact that does all the real
damages.


>> If you were talking about a jab where you hit and pull back.. then I
>> would agree.. But that it Not the case.
>>
>>
>> If you do this consciously that
>>> means that you are decreasing the velocity of your fist and
>>> lessening the impact force.
>>
>> * You are Not reducing the veloticy.
>
> If you are intentionally stopping your fist then, by definition, you
> are reducing it's velocity. How do you stop something that is moving
> without changing its velocity?

If you hit a brick wall, where is the velocity gone? It stopped you.
When you Hit the target, you are not so much as stopping - you are
creating a surge of energy. That energy hits, you are basically stopped by
it - because the energy has managed to deliver perfectly into the target.
However, creating the energy blast probably helps to stop you..

BUT, the point is this..

Why do you want your supposedly more momentum (which you arent going to ge
t much after impact!) when you can create a shockwave thats 10 times the
force with the tighten?! Instead of giving the target a weak stream of
energy.. you are sending them concentrated energy blast. Like an atomic
bomb, instead of a stream of a cannonball.


>>You are impacting and releasing
>> a boatload of energy on that impact. Like rolling a loaded catapult
>> to the target, and at impact, pressing the Firing lever.
>>
>
> Do you think that if you screeched to a sudden halt at the moment you
> pulled the lever that the boulder would hit harder?

You dont get it again. The boulder in this example is a serious Force
that ill never exist if you use a typical punch. A typical punch will
have a catapult, but will not fire it... instead, they will just ram the
catapult right thru the target - without loading or firing it! :P


>>>>When you stop
>>>> suddenly and then contract all your loose muscles at once.. you are
>>>> sending a Huge amount of energy thru your now tightened (greatly
>>>> conductive when tight) body.
>>>
>
> Nonsense. If it worked like you describe you would be able to punch
> into the air then send out a huge shockwave just by tightening up all
> your muscles at once.

I can punch in the air - tighten, and there is a shockwave.
The entire floor vibrates loudly, as it moves thru my lower torso, and into
the floor. I can not get this effect with other types of punches.


Putting as much of your body as you can into it helps because that
> increases the mass, but you dont do this by just seizing up.

Bullcrap. If your muscles were not tightened to even a small degree..
when you hit something, your body would bend like rubber arround it,
and absorb what it was trying to send!

People ARE tightening.. BUT, they arnt doing it perfectly. Not
explosively all at once.

This is
> important because the shorter the time period that the momentum
> transfer takes place in , the greater the impact force involved is.

You are prooving my point. An explosive tighten releases more energy,
and in a shorter time period.

If a JKD guy can generate enough force to make a conditioned body of a
seroius martial arts guys (ME) chest burn like it was on fire from a
mere 1" away from the target.. Imagine what would have happened should
there had been 5" ?!

He was able to get more power from that small
amount of room to accelerate .. and still hit harder than Ive EVER been hit
in my entire life - by anyone, or anything!

By your definition, this would Not be possible at all. And in fact,
anyone who dosnt have such training can Not duplicate it. Most people
cant generate Any power from 1" distance away from a target - rahther than
do enough damage so that they target says 'no thanks' to a 2nd hit
demo in the same spot! Sh1T! The guys first punch wasnt even spot on
cause he wanted to do another one - knowing he could do it better the
2nd time!!!

To make up such a force, would be stupid. Why waste so much time and
energy to defend an outright lie?! The stuff works. I can do it
(not as powerfull as that guy - but still, I can do it).


> What you seem to be mistaken about is the degree with which you can
> control this. In order to shorten the time the collision needs to be
> as inelastic as possible. The only effect you can have on this is by
> what you do with your own body. You cant control how the other person
> absorbs the impact.

Yes you can. You dive into it untill it will not compress anymore... then
send the shockwave energy. When hitting water slowly, its fairly soft...
yet hit it very fast - and it becomes hard. The water does not have
time to conform and move away fast enough... so its structure locks
together.. and forms a solid. This is the same with the body. If your
energy is fast and powerfull enough, the material does not have time to
conform and absorb. It acts as a solid.


As far as your own body goes, the best thing you
> can do is make sure that when you hit you reduce as much as possible
> the amount that your own fist/body is pushed back in the opposite
> direction or allowed to crumple from the equal and opposite force
> being put into it from the impact. The best way to do that is by
> aligning the skeltal structure as strongly as possible to absorb the
> impact, rooting yourself to the ground as solidly as you can, and
> keeping the muscles tensed that provide resistance to the unwanted
> direction of motion(which happens naturally because those are the same
> muscles you are using to accelerate your fist in the first place).

You have just managed to describe my point again! You are becomming
rigid in order to make sure the forces do not return, and that your
not pushed back. The difference is.. that the Explosve version is
done with a timeing that allows the person to be more relaxed longer,
which allows faster movments, and only tightens when initial contact in
made.

>
>>
>> Incidentally in a knock out punch kinetic
>>> energy is probably better. You WANT the head to move. The sudden
>>> movement of the head is what causes the knockout.

We are both talking about Kinetic energy. Im just showing how to
generate much more of it.

>
> Sorry dude, but it is the impact of your brain bouncing off the inside
> of your skull caused by the sudden motion that causes a knockout. Not
> a mini-quake. Some people have more room for that brains to slosh
> around then others I suspect.
>
> Bryce


Both methods Im sure have profound effect. But, setting off 200+ lbs
force 2" inside the skull surely causes terrible trouble. Ive easily
dizzyed people from a minimal reduced force version of the punch.
.

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