Re: Protecting the fuel trucks


<I wrote before>:
Finally getting back to reading this group, up early killing time. I
probably should wait till I have read more, still on Aug 12th stuff. But
anyway, just a couple of things for now. A couple of weeks ago, was a
congressman, terrible with names, initials of R R,

<Kirk/Rabid Weasel write>:
I hope it wasn't governor Taft (aka "Gov. Shaft"). I've never really
like him. He's up on charges (mis.) for failing to report gifts.
<Bojutsu>: Nope, Rosco I think, something or other, hece the initials R.
R. My system won't go to advanced sites, such as any of the Discovery,
History, etc Channel sites, & I assume not the C-Span site if there is
one. If so though, the report can probably be looked up & at least find
a way to order the information/transcript at least.

<I wrote before>:
for now I'll just point out that he
claimed that Hydrogen is not a source of energy but merely a storage of
energy.
At best.

<Kirk/Rabid Weasel write>:
*MOST* hydrogen being produced today is actually broken down from
natural gas. This is no better (less so, actually) than petroleum based
fuel. Further, the actual energy density of hydrogen sucks. It's
terrible.

<Bojutsu>: Humm, I'm only familiar with diffusing Hydrogen & Oxygen from
water by running electricity thorough water. Thus, already needing to
have generated the electricity. In any case, still seems to take enegy
to create it, hence just storing, not a source of energy.

<I wrote before>:
Also, regardless of efficiency, he pointed out that Nuclear is dependant
of Uranium, also limited & some day to run out. That even it would last
1,000 years at the current rate, if all our oil & coal burning
electricity were changed over to nuclear, then the Uranium would run out
faster than the oil, since we currently make only a small % of
electricity by nuclear power.

<Kirk/Rabid Weasel write>:
I don't think that's accurate. Current electricity demands could be
shored up for a rather long time on Nuclear.

<Bojutsu>: that's from the energy report I mentioned. Chart showing the
remaining extimated usable oil & suggesting that there is just enough
left to get alternative sources going before it is too late & how we are
I think it was 30 years behind, from when we had time to develope
alternatives before it would be a last-minute thing & soon that the
resources would run out to where alternatives couldn't be developed in
time before oil is to run out totally. On the idea that we would still
need the current energy system running & working on the next energy
system, in order to develope the next one. Again, wish that I'd taped it
or had the transcript or had taken notes at least.

<I'd write before>:
>From chatting with people who know about & have solar cells, they do
advocate them; apparently the cost being recovered over time, even
though needing to maintain, repair &/or replace some from time to time.

<Kirk/Rabid Weasel write>:
Same problem, Energy density.

<Bojutsu>: Yep, that is where the point was that
photo-voltaic/solar-cells are limited to how much power they can
generate by a function of area & then the suggestions of how to cover
enough area to matter. Photo-voltaic can only imporve in durability, not
efficiency; just last longer, need less to no matenance, harder to
damage. NOT the only solar energy method though, just the only one that
most people think of.

<I'd written before>:
Still IF "EVERY" home & building had their roof covered in solar cells,
what's the difference,

<Kirk/Rabid Weasel write>:
Sure. But the payback is measured in years. That makes it a hard sell.
Yes there *is* a point of payback. But the average home owner doesnt'
want to wait 2+ years to get it. And that's in an ideal environment. Up
here in the north we get snow and stuff on our roofs. That would have to
be cleared off for solar cells.

<Bojutsu>: yep, that's what people though 10, 20, etc years ago & why so
few have converted still yet. The cost is prohibitive So unless if the
cost of sources we use now come up &/or alternatives costs go down,
we're stuck. Kind of like knowing that we're running out of firewood in
an open camp-site in a bitter winter but content to huddle around the
fire & keep using the already cut limited firewood, rather than using
some of it to build a shelter, cut more or try to reach civilization. To
stay warm & cozy at the campfire is easier than doing the work that is
long-range. Getting cold by moving away from the fire to attempt the
other choices being thus equivelant to concerving energy = less
comfortable.

<I'd written before>:
is there any great demand for the beauty of roof shingles or whatever
roofing to be what it is now as looking better,

<Kirk/Rabid Weasel write>:
Actually, yes there is. Particularly on up-scale houses. You see all
kinds of architectural design elements of roofs, including patterns in
shingles.

<Bojutsu>: Figures. Maybe fashion/artistic solar-shingles could be
made?? Otherwise, it's the idea that people fear change
(the-unknown/unfamiliar).

<I'd written>:
Other solutions that I've heard for
the area-problem were to somehow have solar panels over on "as" every
road,

<Kirk/Rabid Weasel write>:
Too fragile and unstable an environment. Accidents are still going to
happen and those will likely damage the solar cells or the junctions. A
better idea is to blanket all of the flat-topped buildings. It'd be a
whole lot easier anyway.

<Bojutsu>: rooves were suggested above. :-) The high-way ideas & such
came out of noticing that blacktop is already black, to nto have the
roof-tile problem of black panneled rooves. Though I think they are also
or maybe all "brown" rather but anyways. Just to make use of all that
surface-area that is already being used, non-environmentally. The
durability IS somethign that could be worked on (unlike the power per
square meter). They could have like the clear material for clear
riot-shields nowerdays, bullet-proof/pressure glass or whatever clear or
semi-clear material, to thus still let light in yet anythng but fragile.
The actual solar cells can be flexable, bendable, very durable. Some guy
tried to promote flexable rolls of solar cells, like wall-paper, in
Australia in the at least late 90s I think. Could have had solar-tents,
window-shades, onnings, wall-posters (the stuff was like
over-head-projector clear-plastic sheets, not as tough as a paper-plate
but stiffer than was-paper. He still went broke though.

I'll just then delete out the unused land suggestion. I'd personally
blanket though all tobacco fields that are supposedly usless for growing
any other crop besides tobacco, hence in my view, utterly useless. ;-)
Oh, for both the rooves & for oer the parking lots, of malls & shopping
centers, there's lots of area. As with the canopy tunnels over roads
idea, the problems to solve would be snow & ice, maybe though they culd
be heated to keep such buildup off it. For that matter, the area
collecting rain & the melted water could be directed through small
gutter-turbines (saw on a show on China but supposedly available here).
Where they would be just in use when raining or other bad weather,
wouldn't that be the times that you would need a bit extra to compensate
for less light due to clouds anyways? Otherwise, unless you live by a
perpetually flowing stream, no one bothers to use such devices in the
USA that I know of, pipe-turbines or whatever they're called.

<Kirk/Rabid Weasel write>:
In those type areas mirror arrays for focused heat generation is
probably a better bet, imo.

<I'd written>:
Steam engines were working fine till gas-combustion engines became all
the rage. Just need something to heat the water. Back to the focused
light; by mirror arrays &/or fresnel or just normal lenses.

<Kirk/Rabid Weasel write>:
Did you see the story about the Stirling Engine I posted a few posts
back-thread?

<Bojutsu>: Sorry, I did see it but sine the site print was too small, I
hadn't yet read it. <Here & e-mail, I've the text set to maybe 20 point
size or so, can't do anything about text of websites though>. I'll try
to get aroudn to reading it later then. Is it steam-engine based also?

<I"d wrote>:
I've alway wondered "why" the steam coming out of the system couldn't be
in a closed system & return to liquid when it cools a bit, then hot
water not needing as much new energy to heat to steam. Thus, a closed
system, minimal maintenance, the generator being the most high-tech
part, nothing new, just re-worked.

<Kirk/Rabid Weasel write>:
Some systems do this.

Peace favor your sword (IH),
Kirk

<Bojutsu>: Are they any less start-up-cost expesive than photo-voltaic
pannels? Well, enough of my ranting for today. Gotta go, have fun all.


Bojutsu

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