Re: why Heinlein


"Chas" <chasclements@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:QqudndJ_l45BOqfbnZ2dnUVZ_qarnZ2d@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
"Del Cecchi" <delcecchiofthenorth@xxxxxxxxx> wrote
That's funny, I didn't realize Clinton and Janet Reno had military
background. They gave the orders. That wasn't something the local
members of BATF dreamed up on their own. Had nothing to do with the
militarization of law enforcement.

Hogwash. The decisions including Clinton and Reno were made de post facto-
the situation was started by the ATF with lies and abysmally poor
professional conduct.

What part of they made the call do you not understand when you write it
yourself?

The ATF had more than enough reason to check David or any other dooms day
cult out after it was determined that they were buying and stockpiling
firearms.


The 'police' immediately deployed as anti-terrorist commandos, on the
basis of perjured warrants. The ATF clown was replaced by the FBI
anti-terrorist commandos, they introduced tanks, and burned down almost 90
people, mostly women and kids.

Well let's see. Are you claiming these people didn't have the option on
numerous occasions to leave? To take their case to court? That no chance was
given for the children to leave by the authorities? That these innocents
weren't armed and willing to kill? Are you claiming that the place was fire
bombed? That the fire was started on purpose? That the people inside when
the fire started were prevented by those on the outside from escaping?

The few people who were inside as well as third parties testified live
before Congress and I heard them say that none of the above was true.

The Davidens made a lot of very bad choices.

The dear old Sheriff sobbed as he recounted how he was cut out of the
loop- he would have had no trouble getting Koresh to comply with a legal
order.


According to sworn testimony given by members of the group before the
Senate that I watched on live TV David played the local police for fools.
Among other things they lied to them with impunity. The fact that David got
away with lying to these people was seen as more evidence of his divinity by
those who followed him.

Among other things whatever laws David did or did not break he was according
to his followers accustomed to mating with underage females and they bore
many of his children. That of course is not ATF turf but the local Sheriff
should have done something about it.


Even the Forest Service has a SWAT team now- the first solution for the
police is dynamic entry and reckless killing. They've proven it from
coast-to-coast and over decades of experiences in a wide variety of
scenarios.

Yeah well the drug dealers find parks a good place to do business and grow
product.

In Denver, it got so bad that they passed regulations limiting the
SWATzi's to actual situations instead of just serving warrants, with no
threat of violence from the subject- the use of them fell 85% with no
attendant difficulties. That was in response to the Ismael Mena case-
wherein they served two perjured warrants in one day, killing one innocent
man and terrifying the shit out of an innocent 75 year old black lady. It
was even the second instance of the perjuring officer (Joe Bini). Bini
wasn't even fired for it- he just went to a desk-job.
I guess simple literacy is sufficient to win a place in law-enforcement.

Chas


Sometimes having a criminal record seems to help or at least not hurt.

What's your point? If you expect the people that like this kind of work to
all be saints get over it. Most of them are adrenaline junkies. They require
active oversight or they get out of control.




.

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