Re: Juggling shaped hole in normal people's lives?

On 2006-01-30, Cartists4eva <nombatz@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> hmmmmmmm I'm not so sure that the hole is juggling shaped but agree there
> is a hole in many people's lives. As a Christian (ooo I'm gonna sound like
> Billy Graham)

I appreciate your attitude. I like it when evangalists realise that
they can so easily come accross as money grabbing TV preachers ;-)

> I believe that many people who don't know God have a hole in
> their lives, all that differs is how they try and fill it. Some juggle,
> others play computer games or play music instruments. But the motives and
> needs are the same. I shall explain...

I'm not convinced by the "Juggling is a substitute for god" line. If it
were, then David Cain, Chris Fowler and the many other religious
jugglers must be more than a little confused.

Are you saying they had two god shaped holes in their life? One that
they filled with god, and the other with juggling? Or are you saying
that their god wasn't big enough to fill their holes? Perhaps you think
that their juggling makes them less good in the eyes of your god...
That seems a little disrespectful to me.

I guess what I'm saying is that religious belief and juggling are not
mutually exclusive.

> 1) I believe people were made to worship.

Without wanting to get into a theological quagmire over this one, I think
you're wrong. But you're entitled to be wrong, and to be happy with
your wrongness ;-)

> When they don't worship God they
> create false idols for themselves,

I'd rather replace the word "false" with "substitute" - and then yes, I
would largely agree with you. People (generally speaking) work on some
form of belief system. It's either organised religion, or it's some
form of moral code (By which I include scientific method) - both of
which are perfectly valid in my book.

Go with whatever makes you feel better about your life.

> one of which could be juggling. People
> live to juggle, it gives them a sense of purpose, they prioritise it with
> time and money and attending juggling clubs, conventions, watching
> juggling is a form of worship, an alternative to "church" perhaps.

Hmmm. I don't think I know anyone who lives their life according to
what they're told at a juggling convention.

If anyone is currently living their life by anything I've ever said at a
convention or workshop then I hereby take it back!

> 2) God is not just about worshipping him tho. God formed us to have
> relationships with others, for Christians this is the Church where we are
> all in God's family, we were created for community. Sadly in these days of
> low church attendance, individualism and broken families many people do
> not have positive relationships. Being part of a juggling club and
> attending conventions etc enables people to be part of a community,
> fulfilling relational needs.

I think you're right there, but for the wrong reasons. It's healthy for
people to form social groups. Be it at church, school, within the
family or at a juggling convention. Your post almost feels like it's
implying that church is the only social group worth forming - and I
don't feel that's true.

Again, look at the many well adjusted people that have circles of
friends outside of church - there are plenty of examples of good people
who do good things in groups without any theological connection.

Lets take my local rugby club as an example. Some of them go to church
it's true. Many of them don't. They do however get a lot out of team
spirit, and they do raise a lot of money for charity - they do a
lot of good. A great many of them are in stable, happy relationships, with
happy home lives and good jobs.

Now I'm not saying that they're any better or worse than a bible study
group - just diferent.

I think we're digressing a bit aren't we.

> 3) If you are not a Christian and your identity is not in God, giving you
> a true sense of your self worth and/or people around you always said you
> are crap you will tend to seek approval/affirmation/attention. These are
> basic human needs.

Erm, I'm not sure I follow. could you clarify that paragraph for me?
Seriously, I think I've got the jist of what you've said but I find your
sentence structure confusing.

> So juggling, and other hobbies meet our needs to feel a sense of purpose
> in our lives, it can meet our relational needs including the need for
> affirmation.

I think that probably sums up "why do people juggle" better than
anything else I've ever read.

People juggle because they want to. They get something out of it.

> The hole is not juggling shaped
> it is God shaped

Ahh... but which god?

Is it possible to fit Alah in a Vishnu shaped hole? Would you need
a selection of minor norse deities to plug the gaps around the arms?

-Paul
--
I'm making a list, I'll be sure to check it twice.
.

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