Re: New Hunter Needs An Answer
- From: Josh Grant <jg1972@xxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2006 16:58:02 -0400
After that response I totally absolve myself from this conversation. I have
been trying to HELP you New Hunter no one in this group has been in the
"greyarea" in their answers your just don't seem to comprehend that what
you have asked is not a black and white answer or exact science. I suspect
as a group we all have a culmative 1000 or more years of experience.
Something else lost on the generations of me and who gives a F--- , is
respect for some one with more knowledge and experience than you have.
Maybe you should stop arguing with everyone and open your eyes and shut your
mouth. I suspect if you opened our freezers and walked thru our game rooms
at the end of season it would be hard to argue with the success of the
group. We have been very honest and giving you the benefit of the doubt
just like I believe Alex had pointed out but you have obviously NOT gotten
the point out of what everyone in this group has told you. It is a real
shame because I had no one to teach me when I was learning to hunt. I grew
up on a farm and my father did not hunt so I have learned thru the "school
of hard knocks."
I would have killed to have access to a group like this 20 years ago when I
was 14 and trying to figure out all this stuff out on my own. That said I
wish you all the best of luck, . Please remember all this when you are
tracking a wounded animals all across Timbuck Too or are eating your tag
soup at the end of season because you missed. Thing could have been
different if you had listened to voices of experience.
PS A few final thoughts pick up a ballistics book and you will find almost
every rifle is listed at 200 yards zero. I suggest that you sight in using
that table then print it out and laminate it on your stock so when the
moment arrives and you get all John Wayne and decide to take a 300 yard shot
you can just look down at your cheat sheet and see what the hold over and
windage comp is. If you use your 180 there will be no precise way to know
in the heat of the moment where to hold.
BULLET CONSTRUCTION MAKES ALL THE DIFFERENCE. Yes the animal will care when
you are ripping it apart with a bullet it you have not used a bullet suited
for the game you are trying to take. The premium bullets are constructed to
expand at a better rate and not come apart, all of which will ultimately
decide how long the animal suffers if it even dies at all from your shot,
because you have failed to even consider the possibility that YOU could make
a marginal shot.
Join a local sporting club and find a mentor who is respected in you area.
If he or she is not filling the freezer then I would be very skeptical of
what they have to say.
Good luck and remember "Aim Small Miss Small"
Once again just my advice.
Josh
"New Hunter" <jack-browning@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:1155709322.401983.120220@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Jeff Olsen wrote:.
Easy answer- the 180-gn Powershock. The 150 would be completely
unsuitable for elk. Of course, either one would be fine for deer,
though I'd still give the nod to the 180- it'll be less likely to ruin
meat.
That said, I know NOTHING about the Powershock bullet. It may be fine
for elk, or it may not. A much better choice would be a 180-gn
Accubond or Partition. I know you have cost constraints. Most of the
rest of us do, too! So do what we do and practice with the cheap
stuff, then use the real stuff when it matters. The cost of a couple
boxes of ammo will completely dissapear when viewed against the OTHER
costs of, say, an elk hunt. And you'll sure be kicking yourself if
your one chance at a bull results in a wounded and lost animal because
you saved $15 on a box of ammo! Use the right ammo. For deer and
black bear, it doesn't matter so much but for elk, it really does.
Seen it with my own two eyes, I have! :-)
-jeff
************************************************************
From: New Hunter
Thanks, Jeff. That makes sense. Just so the $10 a box Federal
PowerShok in 180 grain (#308B in the Federal catalog) and the 180 grain
Accubond or Partitions sight in the same. Would there be a big
difference in sighting in between the premium ammo and the PowerShoks
say at a 180 yard zero?
-JB
*****************************************************************
From: Josh Grant - view profile
Date: Mon, Aug 14 2006 3:24 pm
Email: Josh Grant <jg1...@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Groups: rec.hunting
New Hunter, 200 yards is a standard big bore zero. You will have to
shoot each round at that range to see how it shoots out of your gun,
that is why I keep saying to buy different ammo and try it out you may
find that 150 and 180s hit almost the same hole at 200 yards shooting
the same brand and bullet type. Then again they could hit as far as
feet apart same gos for the differend brands of ammo and bullet type
that is why everyone keeps telling you to try different brands out. My
7mm rem mag shoots Sub MOA with both Winchester 150 and 175 grain Power
Point Plus or Power Point bullets. With both bullets having minimal
inpact difference out to 200 yards. But if I shoot the remington
bullets out of the same gun same grain bullet they literally hit 14
inches off the mark if I remember low and left. The remington bullets
also will not Shoot MOA out of my gun. So it is absolutly vital that
you get out on the range and shoot and shoot some more because like I
said before no one in any forum on the net can give you the answer that
you are looking for, even if they have the exact same make and model
gun you have. By the way have you taken a hunter saftey class?
Josh
***********************************************************
Josh,
***Regarding the 200 yard zero as "standard," that would simply be yet
another variable in hunting depending upon the terrain/cover/etc. where
one would be hunting. I chose 180 yard zero as that allows the bullet
to remain within the kill zone out to approximately 230 yards and has
the slight benefit of a flatter trajectory between the muzzle and the
180 yard zero. Since (a) where I'll be hunting, there is unlikely to
ever be a shot beyond 210 yards and (b) I have no intention of taking
one farther than that even if it presents itself, therefore the
"standard" for my purposes is 180 yard zero. Logical.
***I intend to shoot the same factory brand as stated many times. If I
were to shoot a premium cartridge, it would also be a Federal and the
standard cartridge is the 180 grain soft point (Federal catalog number
308B). Regarding the variables, they probably even exist from box to
box in factory ammo, don't they, so given the lack of absolute
continuity and preciseness in factory loadings, would it really behoove
one to shoot different boxes since there may be no continuity there
anyway as to where the bullet may end up? In checking a couple of
different ballistic charts and comparing the same factory ammo in both
the standard and premium loadings, at a 180 zero the standard load is
1" high at 57 yards and the premium 1" high at 59 yards---almost the
same. It basically appears that at distances between 75 and 210 yards
(where I intend to do most of my hunting), any 180 grainer, standard or
premium, is probably gonna end up in much the same place with similar
trajectories. <scratching head> Now I've almost convinced myself that
if I hit the target between 75 and 210 yards, perhaps that deer, black
bear or elk won't really know the difference between the 180 grain soft
point or a premium bullet tearing into his heart/lung area. So maybe I
should just stick to the good old Federal 308B, practice a ton with it
and consider it the "average" "one load" I've been trying to find. The
overwhelming response to my question (those that ACTUALLY answered with
150 or 180) was the 180 grain. Hmmmmmmm.........
********************************************************
From: Dalene Barnes - view profile
Date: Tues, Aug 15 2006 11:38 am
Email: Dalene Barnes <dal...@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
Groups: rec.hunting
Nice answer, Josh, but his parameters should have left you with a one
word answer - yes or no.
;-)
Dalene Barnes AOL IM: TX Dalene
************************************************************
Dalene,
The concept of answering yes or no is rapidly disappearing from our
society. It makes people too definitive, precise and also leaves them
open to the need to justify their response. Sometimes that feeling is
viewed as confrontational and our society, after all, is now an
unfortunate product of the "me" and "whatever" generation where
parameters and the concept of "black and white" and "lines in the sand"
is looked upon as too confining. So our society nows swims in a sea of
grey backwash without definitive parameters, rules or focuses toward
the future. Sad....
-JB
********************************************************
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