Re: Elk Hunting
- From: penultimate <drwilly@xxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Tue, 2 May 2006 18:13:05 -0400
Natman:
The fact of the matter is that we are in close enough agreement for
government work and I honor your felt obligation for a clean kill. And
I completely agree that your initial recommendation for a 30-06 with
180 grain Partition is an excellent one, difficult to better.
I completely agree that the 243 with any bullet is an inadequate
cartridge for elk. I believe that its use for elk verges on
irresponsible. Note that 100 grains is a heavy for caliber load in
243. We were never on opposite sides of this issue and if you
perceived flack from me, it was because you mentioned the 338 - a pet
peeve of mine.
I believe that any bullet launched at elk must be toughly constructed
of premium quality of at least 140 grains with bullet weights of 180
grains or more making the importance of a "premium" bullet vanishingly
small. My 140 grain minimum bullet weight pretty much rules out an 25
caliber choice where 120 grains is typically the heavy for caliber
bullet.
The 6.5's, however, with 140 grain and ideally 160 grain loads perform
amazingly well, however, probably because a 160 grain 6.5 has terrific
sectional density and penetrates super well. Because the Swedes got it
right in the 1890's with the very fast twist, you are better able to
stabilize a 160 grain bullet in your garden variety 6.5 x 55 than you
are in a 270.
With proper bullets, 6.5 mm and up bullets will reliably snap bones and
keep on penetrating. I have absolutely no problem breaking one and
sometimes two shoulders on an elk with a 150 grain, 270, Partition. As
to penetration, you pretty much have to break both shoulders to recover
the bullet.
My argument against the "powerful" rifle is the recoil discourages lots
of people from shooting enough to shoot them well. I have absolutely no
bone to pick with anyone that pulls the trigger on a real firebreather
so long as the bullet goes where he intends. But in my experience, not
many people that shoot the big boys are much of a shot, at least when
you take away the concrete bench and sandbags. And the most important
thing to attain "complete control over" is reliable shot placement. I
assure you I have difficulty shooting to my full potential when being
hammered by recoil.
In this regard, I am a big advocate of getting in improvised field
position practice specifically with the rifle you are going to use
hunting. For me, it takes 4 to 6 or more sessions over two months and
about 200 rounds to lock in shot placement with a particular rifle. I
am sure dry firing could stand in place of some of these rounds. But I
do assure you that I am not nearly as confident or competent a shot
when I use several different rifles in the fall. With this practice, I
should manage minute-of-pie-plate accuracy with snap shots off of hind
legs to roughly 100 yards and similar accuracy to 300 yards with a
quickly realized field rest or hastily assumed prone or stabilized
sitting position. Usually, "good" hunting will give you a lot more
time to get ready to shoot with greater confidence.
You very correctly say "In the real world sometimes all you get is a
good shot, not a perfect shot." And in response to this, I note that
you will never know this unless you wait for the perfect shot and it
does not come.
As I have helped break the several nephews into hunting, the skills of
stalking, and shooting well, I have recognized that shooting too
quickly is as big a weakness as being too slow on the draw.
I do not know how to explain the balance or how to learn to optimize it
and it may even be just excess ego to pretend that I have come anywhere
close. But I will say (given a look at an animal I want to shoot) I
now only pull the trigger in about 1 of 3 potential opportunities to do
so. In some cases I do not shoot because the animal is not (yet)
right. In others it is because I am not. Unless the animal is
reacting in fear at your presence, care and hunting skills almost
always presents another opportunity to shoot. But my first point is
that if the hunter is not exercising skill and patience in getting a
good to perfect shot (which means having countable opportunities to
shoot without doing so), then the odds are a lot lower you will hit
exactly where you want to hit. My second is that the chief benefit of
field position practise is that it allows you to get ready quickly to
maximize the time you can wait for the perfect shot. And my third is
that if your game shots are pretty much restricted to elk that are
beating feet, you need to work on your hunting tactics and skills.
40 years ago when I was young and capable of covering 20 or more miles
in a day (and did), the elk I shot knew I was there and were trying to
get away. All knew their hood better than me and most were perfectly
capable of making me look like an idiot. Now, when I try to make the
five or so miles I cover hunting in a day count, probably an average of
an hour passes between being aware of a particular animal and pulling
the trigger. And this is mostly because I spend at least half the time
glassing the terrain to locate the animals before they locate me or are
even aware that I am in the neighborhood. And when the bulls are
buried in the thick north side of the hill, I hunt upwind, detecting
their presence by smell. If the smell is there, 9 times of 10 the bull
is too, usually within 200 yards of the first, unmistakable whiff. And
the successful stock is painfully slow, glassing every inch as close as
10 to 30 yards away with its outcome totally depending on you spotting
the bull before the bull bolts. You can not snap shoot quickly enough
in a pole thicket to reliably down an elk moving fast toward the east
from the west. The point of all this is that I now view the problem of
shot placement while elk hunting as one of transforming hunting to
stalking while the advantage of full awareness is still yours. When
you are able to do this, you get enough more possible shots that you
are able to pick the one that most closely meets your standards for
perfect.
This has been a fun thread and your input to it has helped.
Thank you. And good hunting.
.
- References:
- Re: Elk Hunting
- From: Chris Barnes
- Re: Elk Hunting
- From: Natman
- Re: Elk Hunting
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