Re: US President Martin Van Buren

On 15 Feb, 16:56, "Nicholas...@xxxxxxxxx" <Nicholas...@xxxxxxxxx>
wrote:
On Feb 14, 1:01 pm, scoti...@xxxxxxxxxxx wrote:





On 14 Feb, 07:15, Joseph McMillan <mcmillan...@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:

My latest installment in the series on arms used by US presidents is
now available on the American Heraldry Society website :http://americanheraldry.org/pages/index.php?n=President.VanBuren

Joseph McMillan

The whole of the essay boil down to this quote from Harriett Van Buren
Peckham:

Quote: "Thus what Martin Van Buren got in the Netherlands was not a
grant of arms but merely a drawing of a coat of arms associated with
the Van Buren name. And while Mrs. Peckham implies that it was a gift
from the King, one could parse the words carefully to conclude that it
was simply a gift from someone unspecified--the ex-president was
received by the king, and he was given a drawing of the arms, but not
necessarily at the same time."

What we find then as we look through the 'reasons' that Mr. Van Buren
displayed 'a coat of arms' is really only rumor.  Mr. Van Buren did
what all Americans have done and he 'assumed arms', because he thought
they looked nice and bespoke something of his past, although no one
was sure exactly what: the arms were never positively linked to a
lineal descendent that anyone could hang their hat on.

What we learn from such stories is that heraldry in the US in merely a
wish; nice pictures displayed for the purpose of mimicking an old
idea.

I will repeat:
If American heraldry is a "wish" because people make it up all
heraldry everywhere is a "wish."

Almost all coats trace their descent to one guy who thought a Coat of
Arms would be kinda cool, and made one he thought looked pretty.

This is especially true in continental Europe, which never had an
official authorities grant arms. But even in England and Scotland many
coats precede the creation of official heralds, many others were
assumed unilaterally and officially granted during a "visitation."

Nick- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Hello Nick,

Yes, I see your point - I always have really. Yet these European
countries however - started heraldry: I'm sure you get the
significance of that.
Heraldry had a 625 - year history - in Europe - before the cause of
the American Revolution. The legalities of heraldry and its limits
were developed over a very long period of time. Heraldry as a practice
was reserved for the aristocracy: the antithesis of the Constitution
of the United States. The Constitution went out of its way to excise
the idea of nobility, in two different sections of the very first
article, so this type of thing was obviously very important to the
framers.

By the time the US had decided to ‘invent a coat of arms’ for the
president (think about that), much of the system of heraldry was in
full force. The same guidelines were used as much as legality could
help it. Heraldry was molded to fit an ideal. In France, though
parliament kept rejecting the idea of a regulated authority, heraldry
up until 1789 was still used in the same noble fashion. In countries
where legal authority was placed around heraldry visitations
maintained the standards. The standard was that only certain people
could get away with the idea and thereby practice it. That last is of
course a reasoned conjecture on my part, but when we think in terms of
Ireland for instance, we indeed find this to be the case, so it only
stands to reason that the same sort of pseudo-control went on pretty
much all over Europe. There had to be some controls to keep designs
unique, and the standard uniform. And face it; peasants didn’t have
arms… I’m quite sure in fact that they rejected the idea as well.

Another interesting fact is that this American idea of heraldry never
includes any of the helms mantlings and other additaments well known
to heraldic practices. What the US has done is merely copy an ages
old form of identification and we only go half way with it. So I’m
sorry, but the only conclusion that can be reached is that the US does
not “practice herladry” in the strict sense of it – we’re not allowed
to, by design. I think that only because of this “Institute” is this
even referred to as heraldry: and then it’s only “heraldic services”.
And it was Patrick O’ Neil who in an essay titled The Eminence of
Truth said that ‘institutions are made up of political values.’ Truer
words were never spoken. For when we measure heraldry against our
liberally democratic republic, not to mention France, the idea flies
in the face of what an egalitarian system is supposed to represent:
particularly a representative democracy. In the US we get away with
it only because nobody has yet thought to put a stop to it – it’s not
noticed… In every instance we’ve looked at in the way of framers or US
presidents, they come by these “coats of arms’ only through some sort
of happen-stance. So in my view, those who tout “heraldry in America”
are being a bit arrogant and building a house of cards.
.

Relevant Pages

  • American Heraldry as a Companion in Interest: a sketch
    ... On a thread that subjected assumed arms to scrutiny, ... Americans and American corporate bodies and organizations have entered ... Americans were to be very careful about the design and use of heraldic ... must consider the reality that as a practice, heraldry in the United ...
    (rec.heraldry)
  • Re: American Heraldry as a Companion in Interest: a sketch
    ... ignored) and no obvious errors in grammar. ... Americans and American corporate bodies and organizations have entered ... Internet however has the use of America's assumed arms reached so high ... heraldry as a matter of record ...
    (rec.heraldry)
  • Re: Medieval or colonial portrait art featuring subject achievement
    ... The American version of what most think heraldry is is ... and while I know nothing about the arms shown there's no ... the McMillan FAMILY CREST and SHIELD is okay with you. ...
    (rec.heraldry)
  • Re: Heraldry in America?
    ... Official Coat of Arms of the UAE and the other links, ... Quote: “England and Scotland. ... American heraldry. ...
    (rec.heraldry)
  • Re: Heraldry in America?
    ... countries have official coats of arms ... involved in the granting or control of personal heraldry. ... at and agree, "Yes, that's a coat of arms." ...
    (rec.heraldry)