Re: What consitutes a legitimate knighthood

On Mar 30, 2:52 am, "kaut...@xxxxxxx" <kaut...@xxxxxxx> wrote:
On Mar 30, 4:59 am, jsjo...@xxxxxxxxxxx wrote:





On 30 Mar, 18:15, "StephenP" <plow...@xxxxxxx> wrote:

Nicholas

Perhaps it is a case where knights are a thing of the past in the same
way that an organisation set up to protect certain medieval craftsmen
is a thing of the past?

Yours aye

Stephen

I believe knights and knighthood are very much part of today's world,
at least in the European and Western context.
What has changed is the idea of what a knight is.
Knighthood and chivalry - in the nostalgic sense of the Knights of the
Round Table and the idea of dedicated service to the sick and helpless
- are no longer the main charcteristics, if indeed they ever were.

I must disagree with your assessment; there are orders with 'valid'
knights who are dedicated specifically to service to the sick and
helpless--the Orders of St John. Their knights are 'real' and are so
dedicated.

Knighthoods today are often linked to meritorious service, or are
political rewards. THis is so for "state-level" knighthoods as well
as for knighthoods in private bodies.

Of course this is also true and merely represents another facet of the
roles of knights.
Bill Kautt- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Well, it seems we've come full circle. I understand that knights are
made by sovereign governments for political reasons and service. But
we come to the private body knights again: a knight so made by a
private body will not be recognized as such by a foreign sovereign.
Again I site the example of the Vatican: the head of a sovereign
state. But this state has no politcal authority whatsoever (outside of
itself and its public influence) and therefore knights within that
jurisdiction (as with all private organizations / Orders) are not
knights in that sense. They're more on line with assumed arms...

What I'm gettng at here, is that from what I've been able to learn
form this thread etc, there are in fact two classes of knights just
like there are two classes of arms: those granted and those assumed.
I could have arms granted to me by any private body and within that
body (and its concordant groups) my arms would be perfectly
legitimate. But if I take those arms outside of that body - as is,
they are merely assumed arms. I could of course attempt to get a
grant from say, LL, but two things are not likely to happen: 1, my
arms will undergo some change (in all probability) and any rank that I
held in a private body will not be transferable to the grant, unless
it is a rank so recognized by HM. Therefore, the arms and the rank
are - assumed.

Regards
Greg

.

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