Re: What consitutes a legitimate knighthood

In article <1174956032.836581.148750@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>, Greg says...

On Mar 26, 1:19 pm, "kaut...@xxxxxxx" <kaut...@xxxxxxx> wrote:
On Mar 26, 5:27 am, "StephenP" <plow...@xxxxxxx> wrote:



So, I don't think that grades of knighthood are applicable to the
argument: they are either active knights or not... The Vatican (as I
said) is a sovereign state, but the question in this case is: do the
honors of knighthood carry over? Now the same question can be applied
to Military (chivalric) Orders and their Knights...


As you seem to be particularly focused on this issue the answer is yes, under
the Lateran treaty, honours conferred by the Holy See are specifically
recognized in Italian law. Furthermore, by the Law of 1951, no. 178, the awards
of the Sovereign Military Order of Malta are also recognised in Italian law.
Furthermore, following a parere (opinion) of the Italian Council of State, the
Italian Foreign office has the responsibility to delegate what may be considered
a "non-national Order". Recent designations of such have included the
Constantinian Order of St George (Two Sicilies and Parma), the Order of St
Stephen of Tuscany, the Order of St Joseph of Tuscany and the Order of St
Ludovico of Parma.

Many countries have laws or regulations which designate to the head of state or
someone delegated by him the responsibility of defining whether an Order
conferred by a foreign state may be considered legitimate, and whether it may be
worn in the country concerned. France, for example, has the Grand Chancellor of
the Legion of Honour - as a general rule Grand Chancellors will permit Frwench
citizens to wear as recognised Orders any Order that is conferred by a foreign
state, provided neither the insignia nor the riband resemble those of the French
state Orders [for example, French citizens will not get permission to wear the
Portuguese Order of Christ, whose ribbon is exactly the same colour as that of
the Legion of Honour). Orders are defined differently to medals, and the way
they are to be worn likewise. The Grand Chancellor has also accorded permission
to wear decorations not granted by a head of state recognised as such by the
French Republic - these include specifically the SMOM, the Order of the Holy
Sepulchre of Jerusalem, and the German Johanniter Order (and, in one rare
exception in the 1950s, the Austrian Order of the Golden Fleece).

Denmark has authorised a citizen to wear the badge of the Order of Merito
melitense of the SMOM, even though Denmark has neither diplomatic nor official
relations with the SMOM. Sweden has likewise authorised the SMOM.

But at another level, the rank of knight does not of itself carry with it any
rank or precedence in most modern states, neither within the state nor by
recognition thereof by another state. Such rank or precedence is usually
confined only to the affairs and ceremonies of the Order in question - i.e. a
member of the Order of the Legino of Honour does not enjoy thereby any special
privilege as a citizen, but he does enjoy certain precedence, depending on his
grade and the date of conferral, within the Order.


--
Guy Stair Sainty
www.chivalricorders.org/index3.htm
.

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