Re: Russian Guns vs. American Guns
- From: "Asa" <sdhighpower@xxxxxxx>
- Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2006 10:42:15 +0000 (UTC)
# Unfortunately most men in the West are very biased in their judgement
#of the worth of guns. They subscribe to the myth that Russian (military)
#technology is and always has been significantly inferior to American
#(military) technology. They say that American guns are better because
#they want them to be so that they can think that America is superior.
# Russian guns are cheaper, easier and quicker to make, operate and
#maintain, simpler and more similar in design, tougher and more reliable.
#They are as accurate as their American counterparts and most fire a
#more powerful round.
Russian weapons are designed to be "good enough". This is often
defined as being produced in large quantities, and being rugged and
simple enough to withstand the abuse dished out to them by (normally)
poorly trained troops. Fit and finish is often of a lower standard,
compared to US systems. On the other hand, user issues are sometimes
ignored, with the following consequences:
- AK 47 handguards will overheat and catch fire following sustained
automatic fire. Reason? There is no metal liner (heat shield) inside
the hand guard.
- The safety/fire selector on an AK series rifle is noisy, and operates
in safe/automatic/semiautomatic mode, as opposed to the western
practice of safe/semiautomatic/automatic. This may be more of an issue
with design and intended method of use.
#Modern Russian pistols use the Russian 9x19mm round which is more
#powerful than N.A.T.O. 9mm rounds.
Incorrect. The Russian standard pistol round is the 9x18mm. The
Russian standard service pistol is the Makarov. This pistol can use a
simple blowback system because the 9x18mm cartridge is less powerful
than its western counterpart. NATO standard 9mm ammunition is known as
9x19mm/9mm Parabellum/9mm Luger. Most firearms using this cartridge
require some sort of locking system to prevent premature opening of the
breech. Attempting to fire a 9x19 round in a modified Makarov is
likely to result in a blown up pistol - the 9x19 is loaded to higher
# Russian medium machine-gun/rifle rounds 7.62x54R are slightly more powerful than N.A.T.O. 7.62x51 rounds.
Incorrect. The round listed at
http://7.62x54r.net/MosinID/MosinAmmo001.htm (loaded with a 147 grain
projectile @ 2770 FPS) is virtually identical to the US standard M80
ball round (147 grain projectile @ 2750 FPS - measured at 78 feet from
the muzzle. This is roughly 2800 FPS at the muzzle). The rimmed case
of the Russian round makes it slightly more problematic to employ in a
repeating firearm, due to the need to correctly load the magazine. In
defense of the Russian cartridge, it was designed over 100 years ago,
when rimmed cartridges were much more common.
#The Russian 12.7x107 round is more powerful than the American 12.7x99 round.
Incorrect. According to http://world.guns.ru/machine/mg03-e.htm , the
muzzle velocity of the 12.7x107 is 850m/sec. This is lower than the
900 m/sec of the US 12.7x99 round
(http://world.guns.ru/machine/mg04-e.htm). I was unable to determine
if the projectile weights for both rounds were similar. Higher chamber
pressure or a lighter projectile may be reasons why the US round
delivers more velocity.
#The AK74 5.45x39 is less powerful than the 5.56x45 round though. The 5.56x45 round is underpowered for its purpose anyway.
Lots of people are dead as a result of both rounds - seems to say that
either is sufficiently lethal. Incidently, both rounds also have
better retained velocity and terminal ballistics than the 7.62x39 round
that the 5.56x39 replaced. Combat in Iraq and Afghanistan shows that
better trained US troops equipped with M4 carbines routinely outshoot
(accuracy at a given distance) the less well trained insurgents (who
are usually equipped with AK47s). Due to the use of body armor, most
US fatalities due to small arms are probably due to severe head and
# Do you have experience with Russian as well as American-designed guns?
#How did you find them?
- Fit and finish on the Makarov pistol was much cruder than on US
firearms (M1911 and M9 pistols). The Makarov safety was a bit
difficult to use, since the levers were a bit small. There were lots
of sharp corners on the Makarov. Can't speak much for accuracy on any
of the handguns mentioned, since I'm not a good shot with a pistol.
- Fit and finish on SKS and AK 47 carbines was much cruder than on
comparable US firearms (M14 and M16 rifles). The accuracy of
unmodified US weapons and ammunition I fired was far better than that
of the SKS and AK47. Accurized M14 and M16 rifles firing match quality
ammunition have better accuracy at distance than the SVD (Dragunov)
rifle. There is NO way an SKS or AK47 can be accurized to where they
can shoot to the same level of accuracy as thier match conditioned US
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- Russian Guns vs. American Guns
- From: usenet_poster_999@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
- Russian Guns vs. American Guns