Re: SFG

Billy wrote:
In article <htedad$pnr$1@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>,
Jeff Thies <jeff_thies@xxxxxxx> wrote:

Billy wrote:
In article <hte3pv$9vc$1@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>,
Jeff Thies <jeff_thies@xxxxxxx> wrote:

Billy wrote:
In article <b2forewagner-CC948B.09550823052010@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>,
Bill who putters <b2forewagner@xxxxxxxx> wrote:

In article <htbaj3$73p$1@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>,
Jeff Thies <jeff_thies@xxxxxxx> wrote:

Billy wrote:
<snip>
<snip>
No, I
haven't checked the soil pH. Real men don't ask for directions, we wait until we're out of gas ;O)
;O)

Jeff

Typically, conifer forests have low pH soils, I suspect that I am confusing cause with effect.

I don't think it's clear cut.

Not much else grows in a pine forest, there is a lot of pine straw that lingers until it burns. I think the overall environment shapes the soil and it's pH, what little soil there is has poor construction. From what I can tell deciduous leaves are more acidic than coniferous, it's as if pine straw in the garden is completely different than pinestraw in the forest.

http://forums2.gardenweb.com/forums/load/soil/msg050944526608.html

All organic decomposition that takes place in soils (or compost bins) is acidifying. That is, the decomposition process generates acid. If the material being decomposed is full of bases, it is possible that the end result is not acidic.

I am no pine needle expert, but I very seriously doubt that they are full of bases. Coniferous trees tend to suck their nutrients back into the tree before dropping old needles (unlike deciduous trees). Pine needles are very different from oak leaves for this reason.

So given the fact that decomposing needles generates acid, and that pine needles probably do not contain much in the way of bases, my guess would be that yes, they will acidify the soil. Whether it will be enough of a change to be noticeable is a different story. It would depend on the buffering capacity (the ability to resist change) of the soil.



Also, it looks line pine forest have very high C/N ratios

http://www.fsl.orst.edu/~waring/Publications/pdf/TempForestEncyc.pdf
Leaf litter, wood, and root materials produced by evergreen
conifers usually contain twice the amount of carbon
(C) in relation to nitrogen found in corresponding materials
produced by deciduous angiosperms. As a result, the
decomposition of coniferous litter is usually 3–4 times
slower than hardwood litter, leading to a greater accumulation
of forest floor litter under conifers (Figure 1).
With time, as litter decays, soils under coniferous forests
maintain high C–N ratios and serve as storage sites for
amounts of carbon that far exceed above-ground biomass,
and have turnover times of centuries and millennia.


I think it's the lack of decomposition from too little green N, some acid must then leach out, that is all there is as there is no buffer.

But, what do I know! Being wrong is more predictable than being right.


I have some monster azaleas growing under pines. I don't think this is unusual, I'll have to test the soil some day. There's a foot or more of pine straw in places.

Jeff


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