Re: Question about painting cabinet sides

WOW, todd. I guess you feel strongly about Oil. i just stopped off for
a minute at me mums to do a quick upgrade on her comp. I will have to
sit down and read your response when i get home.
a few key things though.
Wal-Mart paint??? you are kidding of course, right?
Sherwin Williams Pro Classic. I use it on furniture religiously. It is
a Latex and is more durable than Benjamins Moores Impervo Oil based
paint. I have several samples of both on trim boards and many times
have showed contractors the differences. Sort of a "pepsi
challenge"...I have not painted with Oil on cabinets, furniture,
bathroom vanities or trim in over 12 years. I used to use Oil paint
all the time, don't get me wrong.
When painting on metal of course...we do not use latex. Of course we
are talking about an arcade cabinet made of wood so i saw no point in
praising oil for that.
I don't use latex on metal.
I do have to make this part clear. Cheap paint to me is Behr, anything
from Lowes, Wal Mart or even Sears. There are many different lines of
Sherwin William Paint, Pro Mar being crap, Super Paint being good for
the price, Duration OK but not for the price and Pro Classic...my
choice. When saying just "latex" paint you are generalizing.
California paints makes a water based latex paint. In my opinion it is
just colored water. If our argument is based on your having only used
California or Behr paints than i would definitely side on Oil.
I'll have to sit back with a cocktail tonight i guess.


On Jun 26, 1:43?pm, "todd1...@xxxxxxxxx" <todd1...@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
EkGwako wrote:
Oil or latex?

Oh no you di'n't!! :-)

I have to defend oil paint because I've worked a lot with both latex
and
oil.

BTW: latex is technically known as Emulsion Paint.

Oil takes a very long time to fully dry

Latex actually takes longer to dry and cure. Cure time for latex is
even extended as multiple coats are applied. The gases from the
binders
and fillers in the paint need to escape. Binding of the latex
particles
impedes that escape and as time progresses, the hardening of the latex
increases the resistance on escaping gases. This translates into
longer
cure time. Oil is dry enough to sand within 12 hours whereas latex
will
still capture your fingerprint within that period of time. Don't even
bother trying to sand. Even with water, latex is soft and will gunk
up
your sand paper. The sheen will also change if you get oil or
moisture
from your fingers on it (before it's fully cured). It takes on a hazy
look. Latex takes about 90 days to fully cure and even then is still
subject to denting and fingernail marks. This is a property of latex
paint - it is intended to remain flexible to prevent cracking. Oil
will
off-gas for up to 30 days but during that time you can't dent or leave
nail marks in it. You can dent the substrate but not the paint. You
can also put your machine back together within a few days without
having
parts stick to the new paint. Oil has a longer open time than latex,
which I see as a plus. You don't have to clean your sprayer as often.

DAGS for "Emulsion Paint" and read some articles about which paint
type
to use for wood. For example:

http://diydata.com/materials/paints/paints.php

"Although normally thought of as for internal walls and ceilings,
there
are water based types of emulsion specially produced for woodwork.
These
are easy to apply but do not give the same hard-wearing qualities as
oil-based paints."

Quality paint DOES NOT cost $18/gallon whether it be oil OR latex.

False. The price of paint is more around $22+ per gallon. Heck, even
Wal Mart paint is around $22 a gallon. It should only take a quart to
paint a game if you spray it.

Spray Bombs give a horrible, uneven finish on large areas

True. The only use for these things is painting small parts but spray
can paints don't adhere very well even when primer is used. You can
also huff these if you're into that sort of thing.

Oil paint SHOULD NOT be painted over latex paint

Very true. Both paints have different properties. Latex must be able
to breath and stretch. Oil over latex will crack when the latex
stretches underneath. Latex doesn't bind as well to a substrate
either
and will peel off or bubble if oil is placed over it.

If you must get cheap brands...then go with Oil

Don't go with cheap paint period. It's usually harder to work with,
requires a thicker application and doesn't hold up.



Oil, over the years, has been stripped down to be more
environmentally
friendly, making it no where near as good as it once was

This is a misnomer. People who praise latex for every application
like
to argue that latex has improved while oil based paint has not. This
isn't true at all. Oil based paints of today dry much quicker and
have
less tendency to crack. They've improved considerably, the same as
latex paints have.

It has been rumored for years oil based paints will soon be phased

out entirely

BS. There's a reason why it's called a "rumor". Oil based paint
can't
be phased out because latex doesn't work at all in many applications.
See below for some examples.

Which paint to choose depends on the application. There is no
white/black answer where one can truthfully declare that oil is better
or latex is better for every use.

Cars, tractors and construction equipment are not painted with latex.
They're painted with oil based enamels or powder coated. Enamel
simply
means that the paint dries hard. Latex is not durable enough to use
on
cars and doesn't bond well to metal. Latex applied over metal will
often develop bubbles when the metal is heated. Gases formed from the
heat get trapped under the latex coating, which acts as a *** of
plastic and doesn't allow the air to escape.

Homes are painted with latex, both inside and out. Latex remains
flexible in direct sunlight, allowing it to move or stretch with the
substrate it's applied on (siding, dry wall, etc). Latex is not used
on
metal (steel) roofs because it bubbles and peels when the metal gets
hot.

Furniture and kitchen cabinets are painted with oil based paints
because
of their hardness and durability. Oil based paint can be scrubbed
much
harder and will not dent, mar or peel. Paint a table with latex and
place a glass, plate or other item onto it. Wait a day or two and
you'll find the paint is clouded and a permanent indentation is left
in
the paint.

Street signs (Stop, School Zone, etc) and road markings are painted
with
oil based paint. This is another application where latex doesn't bond
well to metal.

Not many artists will use latex paints on canvas. Instead they use
oil,
tempera, watercolor, etc. This is due to the properties of latex not
being appropriate for painting on canvas. Latex must be left alone
until it has bonded long enough to paint over-top of. Otherwise it
pulls off as small pieces of plastic (latex), making a nasty mess.
Artists also need to keep the paint open for extended periods of time
and latex will dry into a plastic, gooey mess.

For arcade machines I recommend an oil based paint. It's much harder
and looks better for a longer time. You can re-coat within an hour or
two and you can sand within 12 hours. Oil based paints are easier to
clean and harder to damage if you need to scrub them. Latex will
tear,
scratch and scrape if you scrub it too hard. I don't know if latex
was
ever used on any arcade machines. I know the early machines were
painted with oil based paints. If you want to keep a game original,
use
the same type of paint that's already on it. I have used latex on
arcade machines but didn't like the plastic, rubbery feel of the
paint.
It toughens up after a few months but still has a plastic feel and is
easily marred. Another point - oil based paints are easier to touch-
up.

I have yet to hear any logic from a latex supporter as to why latex is
better than oil on an arcade machine.

make sure the surface is clean and very lightly sand it all down to

rough the surface up just a bit

Here's some specific advice on sanding that I've learned:

Primer: use 100 and 200 grit to smooth primer. Don't use water. Take
advantage of the fact that primer can fill imperfections and use
multiple coats of primer if needed. Sand with your fingers instead of
a
sanding block. Only use a sanding block if you're trying to level a
surface. In this case, you'll have to re-coat again with primer after
you have a level surface.

Paint: use 400 grit between coats if you need to do a lot of
smoothing.
Use 600 grit if you're just roughing the surface for another coat.
Sand
lightly, use lots of water and work up a slurry. Sand in small
circles
using your fingers instead of a sanding block. Wipe off the slurry
with
a wet rag and rinse the rag in a bucket of water. Don't wet sand
until
the primer is completely covered with paint. Don't press too hard
with
400 grit or you'll create scratches that will show through the next
coat
of paint. A good between coat sanding will leave a even, hazy/flat
look.

Beyond 600 grit: don't go beyond 600 grit. You'll have a smooth,
mirror
finish after sanding but the paint will run down the side because it's
too smooth. Paint needs something to grab onto. 600 is smooth
enough.
This was a lesson learned the hard way.

If you care to do some research on paint, check the wikipedia:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Painthttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oil_paint


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