(LSJ) "Cancel" without the "no cost is payed" cards
- From: floppyzedolfin <floppyzedolfin@xxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Sun, 31 May 2009 19:22:55 -0700 (PDT)
Hello,
I was reading the Target cards when it struck me that they had the
"cancel [a] card" without the "(no cost is payed)" usual text.
I ran some searches, and found that other cards did not have this
explicit "no cost is payed" text.
Here is a list of the cards I could find, classified in various groups
(mainly, having / not having the "no cost is payed" text).
- Cards that have "cancel [a] card" and "no cost is payed"
Approximation of Loyalty
Bleeding the Vine
Charismatic Aura
Contingency Planning
Dark Influences (twice, the second being shortened to "(no cost)" for
space reasons, I guess)
Denial of Aphrodite's Favor
Determine
Direct Intervention
Disengage
Fae Contortion
False Resonance
Hall of Hades' Court
Hide the Mind
Iron Heart
Jones, The
Not to Be
Personnal Involvement
Rewind Time (TEM)
Scry the Hearthstone
Soul Decoration
Shape Mastery (inf'; I guess sup' keeps the "(no cost is payed)" with
the "as above" text)
Soul Decoration
Sudden Reversal
Terra Incognita
Touch of Clarity
Tranquility
Wash
Khalu
Lucita adv
- Cards that have the "Cancel [a] card" text without the "no cost is
payed" text
Absolution of the Diabolist (ex: is Veles' Hunt's cost paid?)
Aye (ex: "Frenzy" on this Laibon who has a Secure Haven is cancelled,
is the pool paid?)
Blood of Sandman (ex: if the target plays Telepathic Misdirection
"just for cycling", does he burn 1 blood?)
Crimson Fury (ex: does Cloak of Blood on torporised Etienne Fauberge;
action is successful, Crimson Fury gets played, the acting vampire
won't get his blood back)
Delaying Tactics (ex: is Veles' Hunt's cost paid?)
Dogs of War (ex: is Veles' Hunt paid?)
Ebony Fox Hunt (ex: is Veles' Hunt paid?)
Emergency Preparations (ex: Guarded Rubrics is in play, if EP is
played on one's Dragonbound, do they still burn 1 pool ?)
Gangrel Conspiracy (ex: is Veles' Hunt cost paid ?)
Golconda: Inner Peace (ex: if my Golconda on the Secure Haven'd guy is
cancelled, do I still burn 1 pool ?)
Groundfighting (ex: if my Immortal Grapple costing 1 extra blood due
to Terror Frenzy is cancelled, do I still burn 1 blood ?)
Power of All (ex : if my Immortal Grappled costing 1 extra blood due
to Terror Frenzy is cancelled, do I still burn 1 blood ?)
Primal Instincts (ex: I cancel my Slam, I will not get my blood back)
Pseudo-Blindness (ex: I cancel Ozmo's Forgotten Labyrinth, does Ozmo
still burn 1 blood ?)
React with Conviction (ex: Imbued has Secure Haven and is the target
of my Art of Love, do I still burn 1 pool even if React is used to
cancel the Art of Love ?)
Reflex cards (all Abombwe ones; Fae Contortion has the "no cost is
payed" text) (ex: "Frenzy" on the vampire who has a Secure Haven, is
the pool paid ?)
Rigor Mortis (ex: against Resist Earth's Grasp, is the blood paid ?)
Target cards (Hand, Head, Leg, Retainer, Vitals) (ex: sup' Terror
Frenzy is played against the vampire who then plays Target Vitals, if
TV is cancelled, has he 1 less blood ?)
True Love's Face (ex: Slow Withering is in play, if True Love's Face
is cancelled by its own cardtext, has the acting vampire 1 less
blood ?)
Two Wrongs (ex: Two Wrongs is played, then Carna plays Telepathic
Misdirection - is the blood paid ?)
Watchtower: the Wolves Feed (ex: ex: Guarded Rubrics is in play, if a
vamipire is tapped to cancel one's Dragonbound, do they still burn 1
pool ?)
T.J. (ex: is Veles' Hunt's cost paid?)
Watenda (ex: if Watenda cancels a Slam, will the opposing minion have
1 less blood ?)
Count Zaroff (ex: is Veles' Hunt's cost paid?)
Andrew Stuart (ex: if Andrew plays Blood Fury, and reveals another
Blood Fury, does Andrew have 2 less blood ?)
Jan Pieterzoon adv (ex: Guarded Rubrics is in play, if JP adv cancels
one's Dragonbound, do they still burn 1 pool ?)
Santaleous (ex: if my prey plays Archon Investigation, has she lost 3
pool before resolving the bleed ?)
- Cards that have the "cancel [a] card" and the "cost is payed"
Botched Move
Now, the first and last lists are very explicit about how the cost is
handled, but the second isn't. If my guess is correct, all answers to
text inside parentheses should be "Yes" (or "Correct"). But I have
some concerns - some of the mentionned cards don't have enough space
left for a "(no cost is payed)" text to be added. (for example, even
Dark Influences' second occurrence of that pattern has been reduced to
"(no cost)" )
So, the question now is: are some of the cards of the second list
handled in another way than what I have written?
Some cards of the first list and of the second list "oppositely"
match :
- Fae Contortion has a reflex effect using the "no cost is paid" text,
whereas Predator's Communion's (this one has a small overall amount of
text) reflex effect does not mention "no cost is paid". (both cards
are from the LoB set)
- Not to Be (KMW) and Emergency Preparations (Gehenna) have different
texts, but for the same effect.
It has already been ruled numerous times that cards without the "no
cost is paid" mention will have the cancelled card paid (Delaying
Tactics + PTO is a common old example) - has that changed ?
Thanks !
.
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