Re: Swords are annoying

.. Dan Henry wrote:
Well, the truth is that for a long period of history, swords
ruled in personal combat. They never did more than equal spears
or other polearms for formation fighting.

In what source do you find that swords ever equaled polearms
for formation fighting.

Axes and knives/daggers: Useful as tools as well as weapons. Most of
them can also be thrown effectively.

I thought The "throwing" of axes and knives/daggers in ancient mortal
combat is a Hollywood myth. You would never allow such a vital weapon
to leave your hand by choice. If it was done it was done out of
desperation and with little effectiveness.

Maces and hammers: Good weapons for dealing with heavy armor, but the
correct sword will also do a good job.

What is "correct" sword for dealing with heavy armor? Any source I've
read (especially those that conducted experiments) and first hand
trials
indicates that using any sword against heavy armor is an exercise in
futility. A stout dagger, hammer, mace, xbow, etc is a different
story.

The thing is, making a good sword is a difficult, specialized task.
Probably anyone who smiths tools can do a decent job of putting a
useable head on a handle.

Flails: They can be allowed to ignore shields, due to their flexibility,
although the main advantage is they are longer than an equivalent maces
and gain more leverage and thus do more damage.

Their main advantage is that flexible attachment nearly eliminates the
transfer of shock to the wielder. Thus calvary could use them freely
at high speed without fear of ripping their own arms off.

Spears: They can be thrown, they are relatively cheap to make, and they
allow you to keep more distance between you and your foe. But from the
point at which *good* swords become available (and until you can work
iron properly, swords are not so good) until the mounted knight rules
combat and the spear comes back as the lance, swords beat spears.

What source indicates that swords ever "beat" spears in any age? For
example
read George Silver (who lived and breathed mortal combat in the age of
*good*
swords) to see what a master had to say about it. Perhaps you are
thinking of
sword + shield combo?

Halberds are pretty awesome weapons; if you need to both fight in
formation and as a individual and only get one weapon, halberds are the
way to go. One thing about halberds is that they have a sharp edge, a
point, and a strong haft, so they can get all of the classic
pierce/cut/thump damage types if you're going that route. Swords are
general either piercing, cutting, or sometimes both. You can strike with
the flat, but that's generally for non-lethal attacking.

Staves: Stick-fighting requires a good investment in training to be
effective (so do daggers -- the D&D cliche list of weapons for wizards
is bizarre in the way it assigns them weapons far harder to use with
little training than the sword, or even the axe), but a master of the
staff is at least equal to a master of the sword and probably has the
advantage. If you're making a game with weapon skills, this is something
you can model.

Yes, after reading Silver I've been perpetually annoyed at how every
game
I've played totally shafted the performance of staves and polearms.

Pre-Iron Age Settings: Copper or bronze swords don't hold their edge
well and are essentially metal clubs after a short while. They also
break more easily than most weapons.

Whoa there. Losing an edge is true of copper yes, but bronze? No way.
Bronze
is a great metal that holds an edge well and is very tough. Bronze
weapons do
not break easily. They do bend sometimes though. Bronze is still used
widely
today because of these and other excellent properties.

Keith

.

Relevant Pages

  • Re: Swords are annoying
    ... best melee weapons are swords? ... Sometimes I think axes, spears, halberds, and maces get a raw deal. ... Useful as tools as well as weapons. ...
    (rec.games.roguelike.development)
  • Re: True fact
    ... SLOWER than when using eg sword and shield, ... Looking at the power of swords vs. spears (orcish ... Swords max out at +6 DV while polearms can get to +22. ... to use vs. other weapons when taking DV into consideration. ...
    (rec.games.roguelike.adom)
  • Re: True fact
    ... shield doesn't have as much time to build up marks. ... Looking at the power of swords vs. spears generated, ... are generally more useful than short swords and whatnot generated at the same character level. ... to use vs. other weapons when taking DV into consideration. ...
    (rec.games.roguelike.adom)
  • Re: bronze age weapons
    ... the weapons of the European bronze age always look very ... There is another difference - the swords from the iron age and later ... at first look the comparison between iron age and bronze age weapons ...
    (sci.archaeology)
  • Re: Cost of Mithral
    ... > What's quoted above implies that daggers and swords are similar weapons. ... Daggers are, in general thrusting weapons. ... the weight of the dagger is insignificant. ...
    (rec.games.frp.dnd)