Re: OS X compile

George Smith wrote:

The Wanderer wrote:

George Smith wrote:

I'm not. And leave that poor eohippus alone -- he's already dead!

I don't think he was saying you were (are, whatever).

I think he was pointing out

I don't care. I am here to discuss Angband, not to discuss Neo or
have my own identity questioned. This is all off-topic, apparently inflammatory, and counterproductive.

Then why are you continuing to respond to posts on the subject?

(I think you have, perhaps indirectly, addressed this below.)

Personally, I don't think you're him; not only has he posted
responses to you (and self-conversation is a type of trolling I've
not seen him engage in), you seem consistently more (voluble? not
quite... "verbally facile" is more like it; there is a word for
what I'm after, but I don't quite remember it) than I've almost
ever seen him be.

You're cleverer than some of the other alphas here about, but...

You do, however, seem to have [unprovoked and unwelcome slurs]

Go away, you're bothering me.

By behaving as you have been, you are bothering multiple people. I don't
recall if any of them have told you to go away. I certainly have not.
Please do not be rude.

For the record, I for one find the specific behaviour you seem to
have adopted - a variation on his "none of the nasty things"
cut-and-paste kneejerk reaction - to be, by itself and for itself,
both blatantly offensive and exceedingly rude.

If you don't like it, don't post slurs.

I had not. (IMO I still have not, but the odds of my convincing you that
that is the case are slim enough that it is not worth pursuing.) I found
that behaviour, even directed at people other than myself, to be
offensive anyway.

My point is that, *regardless of whether or not someone else has been
offensive to you*, behaving in that fashion *is* offensive.

Why do you find it shocking that when you're rude to someone, they
might actually reply in a manner that you find rude?

I don't.

I do expect them to behave in a manner which is *reasonable*, regardless
of whether anyone else they are interacting with is doing so. In fact I
expect this of everyone, including myself. When I notice that I am not
doing it, I usually apologize; when I specifically decide not to do it,
I give explicit warning of the fact that I am not going to be reasonable
on the specific point in question, and if anyone else continues to
expect me to then that becomes their problem.

Are you genuinely that used to people just bowing and muttering
apologies anytime you treat them poorly?

No, I'm not. In part, this may well be because I tend to treat people
fairly well. When I do treat people poorly, I expect them to call me on
it. They do not always appear to do so, but although I would probably
not strictly *enjoy* it (not being an emotional masochist), I would much
prefer if they did.

Then again, from all accounts you don't like Neo because *he* stood
up to you in similar circumstances. Which means you shouldn't be as
surprised.

Neo was behaving in that fashion long before I got here, and I would be
quite surprised if there were any (much less many) accounts of the
little interaction there has been between the two of us. What accounts
are you talking about?

I don't like Neo because he is continually, repeatedly, consistently,
unoriginally, and unreasonably rude to everyone I have ever seen him
interact with. (Admittedly many of them are not particularly polite to
him, but I gather that most of them are so in response to his having
behaved this way on previous occasions.) This was true before I ever
posted anything to or about him - though it was not as strongly true as
it has become since his responses to me have convinced me that he is not
even slightly amenable to reason in this matter - and it would have
remained true even if I had never done so.

I also consider you to be more reasonable and potentially more
worthwhile than Neo. I was surprised to see you adopt his behaviour in
this matter, and where Neo has proven to be impervious to attempt to
convince him that this behaviour is not the best (or even a good)
approach, you have not yet done likewise.

In extreme circumstances, doing something like that *once* to cut
off a conversation which plainly is going nowhere good might be
acceptable.

That's what I tried to do, but people keep not getting the message
and continuing the conversation that is unwelcome and off-topic.

Then the appropriate thing to do is ignore it from that point. If you do
not do so, then you have not "cut off" the conversation.

In all honesty, I do not remember you attempting to cut off the
conversation - with e.g. a post to the effect of "I am not going to
discuss this any further". It is, however, possible that I am simply not
remembering accurately. (Actually, you seem to have done that with this
very post, though it remains to be seen whether you will follow through
on it by not responding.)

Doing it routinely and on an ongoing basis, and *not* cutting off
the conversation when it continues to go nowhere good

If someone is reading this and reads some slur against me I don't
want them to also read an incriminating silence from me. They must
see me making at least some token objection, or I will look like I am
tacitly accepting what was said about me.

I'm not even sure I recognize the concept of an "incriminating silence"
in casual discussion. Certainly I do not recognize it to the extent of
posting such a response to every perceived slur, rather than (at most)
intermittently when some especially egregious slur is made.

Furthermore, while posting some response to even most such comments
might not be unacceptable (I am honestly not certain), cutting the
comments themselves out in the way that you have been doing would still
be just as rude.

It would, moreover, be significantly more effective in most cases to be
reasonable, open, and relaxed about the matter. Responding to
accusations of being Neo (which I agree would constitute a pejorative)
by behaving something like how Neo would is not a way to convince people
to stop making such accusations. As noted briefly above, I had a good
impression of you before this thread, so I did not expect you to respond
to that accusation by behaving in that way; I was surprised, and
somewhat disappointed, to see you adopt his apparent "principles of
online self-defense" for your own. Plainly they are not being effective
when he uses them; why then would a sane person, which you appear to be,
try to use them?

See above. The conversation is supposed to be over, but then someone
writes another slur. THEY are continuing it.

Then that's their problem. If you have refuted the accusation once, and
indicated that you consider the matter done with, then as long as you do
not see any place to inject further constructive discussion you should
leave them to flail about as much as they want to. By doing that, you
leave them looking like the fools, and you come out looking like the
superior and more mature person.

Now this entire line of inquiry is both unwelcome and off-topic for
this forum. This conversation is over, and none of this off-topic
nonsense is up for further debate.

Sorry - that is neither possible nor (as a matter of politeness)
appropriate. No one, except a moderator in cases where that applies, can
declare a conversation over for all participants; the most anyone can do
is to declare it over for themselves, by way of an explicit decision to
stop contributing to it. This lets the other person have the last word
if they want to; that is, frequently, the only way to actually stop the
conversation.

I have done this before many times, for inflammatory and offtopic
threads alike; it is frequently painful to not respond to the responses
other people make to such posts, but it is effective. I think I'll do it
again now. Barring some indication that discussion is becoming or going
to become more constructive, I do not intend to post again in this
thread.

--
The Wanderer

Warning: Simply because I argue an issue does not mean I agree with any
side of it.

Secrecy is the beginning of tyranny.
.

Relevant Pages

  • Re: PHP script to sort data/create pages according to fields?
    ... No reason to be rude. ... One question was asked by Allan Little. ... It's not like there were ten responses or posts to choose from. ...
    (comp.lang.php)
  • Re: OT - Cant we all agree????
    ... The reason is that so many decent, honorable, ... I've observed your thoughtful and measured responses to Powell over ... Jeff is who he is. ... Is he the most important design engineer in the ...
    (rec.music.classical.recordings)
  • Re: OT - Cant we all agree????
    ... posters, why is it that I keep wandering into threads which they have ... The reason is that so many decent, honorable, ... I've observed your thoughtful and measured responses to Powell over ... Is he the most important design engineer in the ...
    (rec.music.classical.recordings)
  • Re: Flamewar _ DO NOT READ
    ... I know that Neo will reply thinking that my responses below are ... I'm just trying to share knowledge that may indicate to Neo ... The issue that is relevant here is that when there is an insult or the ... This is, in fact, a traditional thinking error on both parts. ...
    (rec.games.roguelike.angband)
  • Re: New Hunter Needs An Answer
    ... I'd agree with you if I'd have seen a first post that wasn't rude to begin ... and the responses were the consequence of the ... New Hunter, I honestly look forward to hearing some more questions from you; ... Federal's 150 grain soft point is 308A and the 180 ...
    (rec.hunting)