Re: Threats to go public on SAM backfire. ?

metallik wrote:
This type of thing has gone on since there was desirable software on
BBS's in the early 80s. (or really, anytime someone has something that
someone else wants and they won't share it) It becomes an obsessive
sickness - as does obsessiveness with one's WPPR ranking.

Hardly... I've known about this since summer and only recently cared
enough to email him about it. It was only when I realized how it
could help learn SAM games that I complained. Also, I hope you're not
referring to me and my .. oh, what, 700th place in WPPR? :) I care
enough about competitive pinball to raise this issue, but that's about
it... if I wanted WPPR points, I'd play in more tournaments.


Not referring to you specifically. It's a large subset of people in general want what they can't have.

they have a "right" to it. Without delving more into the particular
pinmame .dll issue, pretty sure the GPL does not prohibit a system call
in an open source package to a closed source library (the DLL) - the
source code in the commercial product can be released and you'll just
see the code that calls a routine in the dll. Without the dll or its
source you're not getting far.

He may or may not be within MAME's license (not the GPL, they wrote
their own license) ... that's not really why I brought this up,
though. If his DLL contains no MAME code whatsoever, he's probably
fine. Selling it, on the other hand, is a big no-no. His DLL needs
pinmame to run and MAME isn't supposed to be sold in any form.


I don't remember my mame history enough if it was ever GPL, version 35 isn't so could be wrong on that. I wouldn't think Ultracade as a company would want to be involved with license breaking but since it happens all the time with other GPL type stuff and other companies, wouldn't surprise me. Either they know and are willingly ignoring, or they just don't know.

Going back OT, who cares if some top players have the ability to run new
stern games on vpinball? If you don't play better, you're not going to
win anyway. I know all the rules now and how to score well on Dracula.

It's not the top players I'm worried about - I could play pinmame for
a year and still lose to them :D However, between players of
generally equal skill, the one who's had a chance to practice the game
repeatedly will have a definite advantage. That is my concern,
especially since SAM has been the only game manufactured for the last
5 years, and will continue to be the only game manufactured for the
foreseeable future. Having the ability to practice these games will
become more of an advantage as they become more prevalent in tourneys.
Brian said no new tables are being made, but with the boardset
emulated, I don't know that I believe him... anyone can make tables
once the boardset is emulated.


Well, the people that have the code are probably making the tables too, and when they do release it, there will be some tables ready to go. I could see it being in the hands of people that are making the tables for later release that he trusts.

If I don't make the shots, I'm not going to win. You can swipe their
strategies easily enough by watching them play, and all of the players
I've ever met that were ranked high ALL were willing to share tips and
strategies, because they know that you still have to be able to PLAY the
game.

Yes, this is one of the great things about this community :) Still,
there's a difference between pre-tourney crash course, and having a
simulated table at your disposal. Yes, you still need to make the
shots, but it helps when you immediately know what shots need to be
made without having to think. Also, I don't think people are giving
pinmame enough credit - the version Brian showed off at Expo was very,
very good... not perfect, but very playable. No balls through the
flippers or any of that nonsense... it was snappy and responsive. I
think it was running on a pretty beefy rig though :)


I'd have to re-read the license but IIRC forking the software and keeping it in beta would not require you to release your source at that point. Even forking it and keeping it for your own use would be allowed - it's only when you distribute that you'd have to share the source.

All that said, it appears the software IS available, if you're willing
to buy an ultrapin.


So if you buy the ultrapin it comes with the mystery Dll?
.

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