Re: Tech EM Pop A Card Start Up


"Richiep" <rmp12@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message news:dfcaefd1-8a66-458f-9262-bb75e82256c9@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
On Aug 2, 10:58 am, "fweddybear" <fweddyb...@xxxxxxx> wrote:
"Richiep" <rm...@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message

news:34b99d30-1446-4902-a651-c954235d4024@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
On Aug 2, 8:26 am, "fweddybear" <fweddyb...@xxxxxxx> wrote:

> "Richiep" <rm...@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message

>news:f5f001c7-c312-4151-a77a-55bbd92b6479@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> On Aug 1, 7:16 pm, "fweddybear" <fweddyb...@xxxxxxx> wrote:

> > "Richiep" <rm...@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message

> >news:1664b63c-17d7-428c-a535-e28b7ac0d034@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > On Aug 1, 5:17 pm, "fweddybear" <fweddyb...@xxxxxxx> wrote:

> > > "Richiep" <rm...@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message

> > >news:ca906952-37c8-48f1-9d6a-b2a1ee8f55dc@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

> > > > I've bee trying to get this one going for a while, but had left it
> > > > to
> > > > work on my other machines. Now I'm back to it.

> > > > During the start up sequence the ball count step down coil is
> > > > continuously firing , so the reset sequence won't complete. I can
> > > > stop it by manually hitting the rest bar, but then the playfield
> > > > never
> > > > gets activated and the start up sequence never gets to finish.

> > > > Any thoughts?

> > > Think I've mentioned this before while you were fixing one of your
> > > other
> > > games, but maybe you've forgotten.....

> > > The reason why this is happening is because the machine is waiting > > > for
> > > the reset sequence to complete....
> > > Soooooo...look on your schematic to see what is in the reset
> > > circuit....and track down what is not resetting....chances are its > > > the
> > > relay
> > > associated with this circuit....
> > > When yo uhit the reset bar manually, what relay is making it stop? I
> > > would check that relay and move on from there....

> > > Make sure you have cleaned and adjusted your contact blades, because
> > > if
> > > you don't, this is what you will be getting....circuit(s) that do > > > not
> > > function like they should.

> > > Hope this helps...

> > > Fwed

> > Let em ask you something.....the problem looks like it's somewhere on
> > the four relays on the reste bar (Tilt, Reset, Start1 and Start2). A
> > while back most guys were telling me to check the Tiilt Raley, since
> > the playfield components were not getting powered up. Now regarding
> > this (and other ) relays and the schematic.....these relays all have
> > four or five sets of leaf switches on them......when I look at the
> > schematic I can fine the relays, but where does it tell me how each of
> > these switch blades should be set NO or NC.....and what is considered
> > normal state....before the reset bar is pulled or after?

> > Ok....you can tell when a switch is normally open or normally closed > > by
> > whats written on the schematic....the schematic tells you what each
> > blade
> > should be once the game is powered up and ready to play, so for > > instance
> > if
> > the blade is normally open, it will be indicated by 2 vertical lines
> > without
> > any line going thru it ( II ), If it is normally closed, it will have > > 2
> > vertical lines with a diagonal line going thru it... sorta looking > > like
> > this
> > (I/I).

> > The first place I would look is at the relay that energizes what you > > are
> > terming the ball count step down coil. I believe this might also be
> > called
> > the balls to play relay or something like that, so look for a relay > > with
> > that name on the schematic. It may be located towards the bottom of > > your
> > shematic where you will find most if not all of the reset sequence
> > relays....it may only be named by a letter relay such as the F relay > > or
> > the
> > B relay....not really sure, but if it looks like it might be what you
> > think,,,,,,then look it over just to make sure you aren't over looking
> > anything....

> > Have you looked at the stepper unit? It may also have contact blades
> > associated with it, or a disc that turns and lands on the middle of a
> > bunch
> > of rivots....I would also consider cleaning this unit and makin sure > > the
> > rivots line up with the contacts...if it is slightly off, then of > > course
> > there wouldn't be any contact being made and thus the problem......
> > One other thing, and you may not have, but its always good to
> > ask....Have you done anything to the game to make it not work now > > rather
> > than it working before....or was this problem the way you got the
> > machine?
> > If it was working before, then you did some work, I would retrace your
> > steps
> > as to what you did because 9 out of 10 times, it has something to do
> > with
> > what you just finished working on....

> > By ther way... Pop A Card is a great game....I had 2 of them and sorta
> > wish I never got rid of either of them.....only thing is the large > > drain
> > area....A friend of mine had one also and he put the 3 inch flippers
> > instead
> > of the 2 inch flippers....never could get used to that, but the ball
> > stayed
> > in play alot longer.....

> > let us know..... as always.. hope this helps

> > Fwed- Hide quoted text -

> > - Show quoted text -

> Fwed thanks for the tips. I'll take a look at it later today. BTW
> this is a game I bought several months ago..didn't work / was in
> storage when I bought it, so it's not worked since I've had it. I've
> been adding to my collection ( I have 8 EM's now) and I've been
> concentrating on the pins that had issues that I knew how to fix
> first. This is the only machine that's got me puzzled and I can't
> seem to figure outand mechanically/engineering-wise it seems like such
> a simple straightforward design.

> Regarding the schematics, I understand what the symbols mean, I'm more
> perplexed about where you find things on the schematic...like, say the
> Tilt Relay. It's got four sets of blade contacts on it. On the
> schematic, it's labeled TB....but where does it show how those four
> sets of blades should be set?

> The manual doesn't tell you jack. The manuals for my Williams games
> are so much better. They have a picture of every relay in the game,
> telling you how the blades should be set and what items are controlled
> by each switch in each relay.

> I was almost at the point today where I was going to give up and call
> someone to come over and fix it for me, but I know it's got to be
> something simple and the guy would just come in, fiddle with a couple
> of things and have the game up and running in 5 minutes.....OK that'll
> be $100 please....and it would be worth it....it's just that I want
> the satisfaction of fixing it myself.

> For some strange reason, I find Gottlieb schematic easier to read than
> Williams....but then again, I really never owned many Williams games to
> look
> their schematic over.....
> First off, when you are learning how to read or even fix a game, you
> will need alot of patience...the learning curve can be steep, but once > you
> get it, you won't forget it....(unless you are like me)......most same > era
> games are wired similarly.
> As mentioned previously, you will not find all 4 contact blades in one
> place on the schematic for any particular relay...they are scattered all
> over the schematic....but they are marked.
> Also Gottlieb games didn't have manuals except for a parts manual
> describing roto targets, or slings, pops, or drop targets...etc...
> Check basics first, then work towards the more complex things...as the
> fix usually ends up being something very simple...
> Be sure to check the soldered end of the wiring and also the switch
> stack itself while checking the set of contact blades....once in a great
> while you will find a bent tab or even a loose stack as the > culprit....not
> necessarily the blades themselves.
> Make sure they are cleaned and adjusted properly and once you know they
> are, look elsewhere to find anything suspect....there is nothing like
> going
> thru an old em game...and I mean the whole game of contact blades....the
> game will play and act like it was new again.
> I remember my first game....I knew nothing about how to fix it....so I
> called an op over and he showed me just how simple it really was.....it
> took
> me a few games until I began to fully understand just how the mechanics
> worked, but I got alot of satisfaction when I could bring back a dead > game
> on my own....
> So.......back to your problem.....
> It sounds to me like your ball count unit doesn't count up to 5 balls is
> this right? Take a look at the unit itself and see if there are two > coils
> on it....one for counting down and one for counting up....if there are, > I
> would take a look at the one that isn't working to see if it even
> energizes....if not, check that circuit so that it will, but first look > at
> the coil to see if it is fired and also if the plunger moves...if not,
> replace the coil...if so, then find the relay associates with it and the
> set
> of contacts that make it energize....clean and adjust.....
> I don't have a set of schematics anymore, so I can't look on one to give
> you any detailed info....

> Keep us posted...

> Fwed- Hide quoted text -

> - Show quoted text -

Fweddy I just spent another frustrating hour looking at this
again....I checked the add a ball relay looks fine....I checked the
blade positions on the four switch stacks on the reset bar....they
look OK (from what I can tell).

What it's doing now is that during reset is that the score reels and
drop targets reset, but then the score motor keeps running and running
and the ball count step down coil just keeps firing and firing.

The only way to stop it is to manually hit the reset bar, at which
point I geta loud kind of BUZZ, until I let it go, and then the
playfield/flippers never get energized (GI is on) and no count up of
the ball unit to ball 5 (the ball count stepper is in good nick, clean
and functioning.

Question - On the reset bar there are four switch stacks, four coils
and three blade switches under the rail. I found on the schematic
where it says, for example TB (tilt relay) 5A,2C (5 open, 2
closed)...does a make break switch count as two separate
switches...does that blade switch under the rail get included in these
switch counts?

The 5A,2C refers to the motor switches....for example stack 5a, meaning
switch stack 5, row a of how ever many rows of switches....2c motor switch
stack 2, row c or the third row of switches up from the bottom of the
stack...

Although there are usually only 4 stacks, this could also refer to the
area on the schematic, like they do on a map.....

When you manually reset the reset bar, does the motor stop turning? If
yes, then yo uneed to look at the relay that will make it stop and adjust it
because as it sits, it doesn't work....then I believe you will need to take
alook at the ball count unit relay...not located with the other in the reset
bar and see what to adjust there to make the ball count unit function.

One other thought is that there should be a zero position on the ball
count unit and if that isn't properly adjusted, the machine will not think
it is ready to add balls to the unit yet....so check that out as a
posibility....

Fwed

Are you sure about the 5A,2B,1C thing? There is no 5th switch stack
on my score motor.....on pinrepair.com it says these are the switch
contact settings A=NO B=NC C=MB.

The motor does stop when I manually hit the reset bar....I'm wondering
why the score motor doesn't stop when the machine itself pulls in the
reset coil?

When it pulls in should all four reset armatures that were pulled up
remain up? I noticed that the tilt relay doesn't stay up like the
other three and that's the one that buzzes when I manually pulle the
reset bar up.

As I mentioned, I am not sure, but I believe it is referencing the place on the schematic....

The motor isn't stopping because it is waiting for something else to happen...ie a circuit to be completed before resetting....this is what you are trying to find and when you manually hit the bar, it stops, so there is a set of blades on the reset bar that isn't working properly....when you manually hit the reset bar, note which relay changes, so you will be able to correct the problem.

I am not sure which ones are supposed to stay up.... that is something you can check against the schematic to make sure....Check at the ones you are NOT sure of against the schematic to know which are correct or not.....

It sounds like you found the tilt relay to be faulty....when you manually energize it, does this solve your problem? if so, then you will need to (again) clean and adjust those blades....

I hope I am helping here and not sounding likeI am confusing you anymore than you are....anyone else have any suggestions???

fwed

.

Relevant Pages

  • Re: Tech EM Pop A Card Start Up
    ... >> When yo uhit the reset bar manually, what relay is making it stop? ... > Ok....you can tell when a switch is normally open or normally closed by ... > should be once the game is powered up and ready to play, ... > terming the ball count step down coil. ...
    (rec.games.pinball)
  • Re: TEAM EM, One last question on Williams Argosy
    ... will reset but the ball in play will stay on three. ... so I'm assuming that there is a switch gapped too ... your Reset relay is gapped too closely. ... Count unit will not reset as it would at the start of a game. ...
    (rec.games.pinball)
  • Re: TEAM EM, One last question on Williams Argosy
    ... will reset but the ball in play will stay on three. ... so I'm assuming that there is a switch gapped too ... your Reset relay is gapped too closely. ... Count unit will not reset as it would at the start of a game. ...
    (rec.games.pinball)
  • Re: TEAM EM, One last question on Williams Argosy
    ... will reset but the ball in play will stay on three. ... so I'm assuming that there is a switch gapped too ... your Reset relay is gapped too closely. ... Count unit will not reset as it would at the start of a game. ...
    (rec.games.pinball)
  • Re: TEAM EM, One last question on Williams Argosy
    ... will reset but the ball in play will stay on three. ... your Reset relay is gapped too closely. ... Count unit will not reset as it would at the start of a game. ... connection points of the Blue-White wire and look for something ...
    (rec.games.pinball)
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