Re: TEAM EM, One last question on Williams Argosy

On Nov 11, 8:18 am, pinhead81 <wpbu...@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
On Nov 11, 12:06 am, AL <A...@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:





On Nov 10, 1:00 pm, pinhead81 <wpbu...@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

On Nov 9, 10:41 pm, AL <A...@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

On Nov 9, 1:08 pm, pinhead81 <wpbu...@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

On Nov 9, 1:02 am, AL <A...@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

On Nov 8, 9:34 pm, pinhead81 <wpbu...@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

On Nov 7, 4:12 pm, pinhead81 <wpbu...@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

On Nov 7, 8:54 am, Steve Yates <stevegoo...@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

On Nov 6, 11:22 pm, AL <A...@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

On Nov 6, 7:55 pm, pinhead81 <wpbu...@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

On Nov 6, 4:12 pm, Steve Yates <stevegoo...@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

On Nov 6, 12:09 pm, pinhead81 <wpbu...@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

First, I want to say thanks a million to Al and Steve Yates for all of
the help with this machine. With your patience I was actually able to
start understanding the schematics and feel pretty comfortable
following them. I got the Argosy up and running the other day after
having to take a lot of time off because of my son's deployment
overseas and some family health problems that came up.

Everything works on the machine now but sometimes during a game the
machine resets, actually it seems like just the scores reset, the ball
in play will stay the same, i.e. if it's on ball three, the scores
will reset but the ball in play will stay on three. I've noticed it
happen when the targets reset and also when the bonus countdown is
finishing. These two actions seem to be fairly violent operations as
far as action goes, so I'm assuming that there is a switch gapped too
close somewhere but can't seem to logically think which one it may be.
Any ideas where to start looking?

Thanks,

Walt

It sounds like the hold switch (Blue-White and Blue-Brown wires) on
your Reset relay is gapped too closely.  If vibration closes this
switch the Reset relay will energize and stay locked on until all
score reels are reset.  Since the Game Over relay is latched, the Ball
Count unit will not reset as it would at the start of a game.

Adjust the gap on this switch so that it holds the relay properly when
energized but wide enough that vibration wil not cause it to close.

Steve Yates- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

That wasn't it, I checked it out and it was gapped real far. I gapped
it even farther and played a game. When the bonus was counting down
the scores reset.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I thought Steve had it there.

Try sliding a piece of card stock between the switch on the Game Over
relay with the ORN-RED and BLU-WHT wires. Play as you were and see if
it still resets scores.

AL  CARGPB 33(1/3)www.Team-EM.com-Hidequotedtext-

- Show quoted text -

The only reason I didn't suggest looking at that switch too is that it
shouldn't have an effect unless the Yellow to Orange-Red switch on the
Coin relay also closes.  So the Coin relay switch would need to be
gapped too close and the Game Over relay switch would need to be
gapped too close or stuck closed.  The Coin relay switch can't be
stuck closed or a new game would start immediately everytime a game
ends.

If these switches are not a problem, then I would suggest checking all
5 connection points of the Blue-White wire and look for something
loose that may short against one when shaken.  This wire connects to
the Reset relay coil, the Reset and Game Over relay sswitches mention
above, and score motor switches IMP-A and IMP-E.

Steve Yates- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I checked all of the above and nothing is gapped close or has loose
wires. I noticed it happening also now when the knocker goes off for a
free game along with the targets and bonus countdown. It doesn't
happen all of the time, maybe about 20% of the time. The scores reset
but the ball in play remains the same.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

bump- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Did you do this?:

Try sliding a piece of card stock between the switch on the Game Over
relay with the ORN-RED and BLU-WHT wires. Play as you were and see if
it still resets scores.

It won't fix the problem, but I think it will give us a clue as to
which direction from the relay we need to proceed.

AL  CARGPB 33(1/3)www.Team-EM.com-Hidequotedtext-

- Show quoted text -

I played 3 games with the card in. The first game I was on ball 2 when
the targets reset and the game immediately went to game over mode
(before the scores just reset). The second game played fine
throughout. The third game when the knocker went off for a free game
it went directly into game over mode.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Walt,

If you have an alligator clip lead can you bypass the YEL and BLU-RED
switch set on the Lock Relay?  Play as before and see if it stays up
now.

AL  CARGPB 33(1/3)www.Team-EM.com-Hidequotedtext -

- Show quoted text -

I put a jumper (alligator clips on wires) on the yellow wire and the
blue/red wire and started a game. It immediately went into game over
mode.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Walt,

There are normally closed switch contacts on the Game Over Relay (BLK
and BLU-YEL) that should open when the game over relay is energized.
Check those to insure they open.

AL CARGPB 33(1/3)
WWW.Team-EM.com- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

They open fine. As I was checking all of the switches last night I
must have gapped one too far, now when the double bonus is lit and the
bonus counts down it just clicks and doesn't score. On regular bonus
the score adds up fine. I think I can figure that one out but the
resets are driving me crazy.

Thanks for all your time that your putting into this Al, I really
appreciate it.

Walt- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Walt,

Logically (say like Spock) it seems like we're past the point that
things make sense on the schematic, unless color codes are wrong or
I'm wrong in my flow ( I vote for the latter). Cuurently, this is my
understanding:

- An incomplete reset sequence (score reels only)
- Remaining on current ball/player in play
- Hold, Reset and Game Over relays appear to statically function.

I would think that your original idea of vibration slightly moving
contacts with borderline connectivity and or resetting features that
are 'current starving' the above relays would still be the case.

A couple of suggestions to blindly proceed into the darkness:

Darkness! with lights off, focus on the above mentioned relays and
their contacts. Manually trigger drop target resets and any other high
vibration playfield features. Look for slight blue arcing on the
normally closed contacts.

Check the continuously "on" coils such as Hold or Lock relays, these
can be bypassed with a clip lead, or the spring can be temporarily
removed to compensate for a weak coil.

As you look at the right solenoid bus on the schematic, you'll see
it's interrupted by the aforementioned relays. You can take a clip
lead and connect the BLK bus wire to the RED-YEL-WHT wire and then
the BLK to the RED wire, bypassing the tilt and game over contacts to
see where your issues lie.

On your new bonus issue, may I suggest you revisit the Make Break
switch on the Double Bonus relay with the YEL-BRN wire on it.

Good hunting!

AL CARGPB 33(1/3)
www.Team-EM.com


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