Re: Way, way OT: Cheap High Milage Pin Haulers? Honda Fit vs Nissan Versa vs Toyota Yaris

On Sep 29, 10:14 pm, Kenbo <Ke...@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
On Mon, 29 Sep 2008 18:13:11 -0700 (PDT), BigChris

<TheLeafEa...@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

But labor shares the blame. The idea of four guys standing around
waiting for a fifth to show up just to turn a wrench is ludicrous. How
can a business be competitive with job protection rules like this?

Wow. When is the last time you were inside a plant? 1980's I am
guessing :-)

It's a metaphor describing the behavior, but I've seen similar things
working for many companies (like the steel mill north of me) and also
on government jobs (transit agencies). Don't get me started on the
rigged bidding system used by government.

Never been in an auto plant.



And
paying $1500 per vehicle to pay into a unions retirement fund is nuts.
I don't begrudge anyone a good retirement, but this puts a serious
crimp in a companies ability to be competitive.

As does a CEO making $1500 a vehicle. Which is worse?

Neither seems right.



The business labor relationship seems badly broken, largely due to
baggage of past negotiations.

Again, this is yesterday you are talking about. Concessions have been
HUGE on the Union side. WSorry for the clip and paste....

"Ford and the UAW worked out a tentative new four-year contract
without a strike. Over the following two weeks, union rank-and-file
members will vote on whether to ratify the contract. The deal includes
a union-managed VEBA trust fund very similar to the ones given to
Chrysler and GM union members. At least a dozen plants will be closed.
The deal also establishes a two-tiered wage system, which will lower
the pay of future employees. About 14,000 workers will be offered
early retirement packages. Ford, the second largest car maker, is
widely seen to be in worse shape than the other two of the Detroit Big
Three, having lost  $12.6 billion in 2006. The company is in the midst
of a restructuring which is intended to eliminate over 40,000 jobs and
close several unprofitable plants across the U.S. by 2012. "

No one wins when good paying jobs (or labor unions specifically)
disappear. Unfortunately, it will probably take just that for people
to realize why they existed in the first place and how their struggle
has benefited all American workers. Do our engineers really think they
will still be making their current wages if the line workers pay is
halved? Sadly some (most?) do.

Baggage from past negotiations is the impetus for negotiations such as
these, but one negotiation does not resolve problems for all
organizations. The auto industry (mgmt and labor) are taking the lead
in resolving some of these issues, forced by competition. It's
reactive survival and it never should have come to that.

But facing reality is good and kudos to Ford and the UAW for amicably
resolving it.

I'd like to see all employees have a personal stake in their company,
whether private or public,  so everyone gets a stake in the profits,
That way everyone endures the same risks, it's to everyones benefit to
produce the best products and give the best service possible, and no
CEO or board could rape the company without employee approval.

Well said. Most of us are shareholders with our success and hard work
directly linked to retirement (401k).

Yeah, but how many of us get to vote on the salaries of the board? :)

Actually, I blame mutual funds for a lot of CEO/board abuses. In the
old days business had real, live people buying their stock directly,
investors were very interested in what the company was doing, and
shareholder meetings often were contentious. Now most stock is sold
through mutual funds and I have the feeling that the mutual fund
directors often rubber stamp the management agenda. This is consistent
with business school philosophy of maximizing quarterly profits at the
expense of everything else.

[...]



Somewhat agree. Did you read the link on the Wixom plant? The lack of
updated design really hurt. The Ranger design was not updated as the
assembly plant (Twin Cities) was slated for closure. The rising gas
prices and improved quality of the ranger led to very strong demand
extending the life of the plant. Supposedly there are more engine
options on the way. Forgo the diesel and look for the new ecoboost
engine making its debut in the 2009 Lincoln MKS and soon to be in many
Ford vehicles.

I didn't read it but I'll go back and do so. I'm always interested in
new technologies. Diesels generally have a thermodynamic advantage,
plus the ability to burn lots of different oils. If the ecotec uses
stirling cycle technology it would probably level the thermodynamic
playfield, but most manufacturers dropped that idea.

Personally, I don't care for hybrid technology. It seems far too
complex to do a simple job, a car shouldn't have to haul a ton of
batteries around, and the batteries are a toxic problem in the making.

I'm misanthropic :)

I also. Typical Quadrant A (left brain, cerebral) engineer types are
we :-)

Yep, I'd like to have a beer with you sometime :)

Thanks for saving that Ken. I thought to go private with that, until I
realized (too late) that your email was munged. Thought I had lost
it :-)

Agree on the beer. Maybe next Expo, as I see from a previous post you
can't make it this time around.

Chris
(with apologies to RGP for carrying on)
.

Relevant Pages

  • Way, way OT: Cheap High Milage Pin Haulers? Honda Fit vs Nissan Versa vs Toyota Yaris
    ... on government jobs. ... Never been in an auto plant. ... in resolving some of these issues, forced by competition. ... old days business had real, live people buying their stock directly, ...
    (rec.games.pinball)
  • Re: Atheists: Americas most distrusted minority
    ... driving Netscape out of business, ... competition which resulted in the rapid introduction of new features ... that I use, Avant Browser. ... And, ultimately, the courts found evidence that Microsoft had harmed ...
    (rec.arts.sf.tv.babylon5.moderated)
  • Re: Nothing to hide, nothing to fear except the sack
    ... business owners is to make money. ... We've already discussed competition elsewhere. ... knows competitive pressures will very shortly lead to zero profits on ... But the fact is that they *were* forced to make such justifications, ...
    (uk.legal)
  • Re: Airline Biz Crisis: Not Difficult To Predict
    ... > blamed on the owner of the business. ... > If it were a completely deregulated industry, ... Passenger amenities were provided based on the competition at the time. ... > leaving no airline unscathed. ...
    (rec.travel.air)
  • Re: OT: Re: Rest in Peace, Mr. Ritchie
    ... Windows sucked no matter who ran it. ... Well, people that ran real business bitched up a storm to the point the DOJ took MS to court, and after hearing both sides, the Judge found MS guilty, really guilty. ... This is what happens when competition is stifled by iron fisted monopolies. ...
    (rec.woodworking)