Re: Tech help needed on Black Hole
- From: biscuitbecks@xxxxxxxxxxxx
- Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2008 07:37:04 -0700 (PDT)
On Mar 19, 5:46 am, ren4...@xxxxxxxxx wrote:
On Mar 18, 3:18 pm, ren4...@xxxxxxxxx wrote:
On Mar 18, 1:21 pm, hmorten...@xxxxxxxxx wrote:
On Mar 18, 9:47 am, ren4...@xxxxxxxxx wrote:
On Mar 18, 9:22 am, Steve Charland <ccharl...@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
Hi Bob,
In test 17, all of the coils (1, 2, 5, 6, 8, 9) should power on then
off once per test unless you press the credit button to start the test
over again. No more than one at a time should fire, nothing should lock
on if everything is working correctly. Having the lower playfield
unplugged won't hurt anything. The only way to isolate a diode/coil
problem is with a meter but this may be a waste of time until you
replace that orange capacitor (start there first). Since this game
hasn't been gone through by someone knowledgeable (in a while by the
sounds of it), I'd also suspect connector issues.
Steve
System 80, not just a job, it's an adventure
Hi Steve,
Yes, test 17 works like you describe. Test 16 is the one that keeps
cycling the other solenoids on and off automatically. I ordered a
bunch of spare parts, caps, and connectors. The big caps will be the
first to go in and I'll report back. It's rough sitting there with a
game in attract mode asking to be played and have it die when you
press start.
Thanks, Bob
That would be your relays testing. The Game, Tilt, and Q relays are
cycled on and off which you will see as the playfield lights pulsing
on and off and the tilt light blinking and coin lockout pulsing. After
this it cycles through the balls in the ball trough and will
eventually serve all of them up. It keeps trying after that. I turned
off the machine after a while too.
You can try removing fuses which will disable the coils they are
protecting. I am assuming you are lifting the playfield to do so and
then having to replace it for the test. You might want to pull a set
of fuses at a time. If it is a voltage spike coming from a coil with a
bad diode it will not do so with the fuse removed. Just make sure you
note which fuse goes where and get the proper fuses in the proper
holders. Not a bad idea to check against the schematic and make sure
someone else didn't put a wrong fuse in before. Heck check the fuse
isn't blown as well. If you find a fuse whose removal stops the reset,
then we know which coil is suspect. If none of the fuses help (and the
bridges in the bottem test ok) then it is time to start looking at
connectors and such. But lets try and isolate what is causing the
problem.
The fact that you can unplug the lower playfield and it still happens
tells me that the problem isn't down there.
I guess what I am saying is that your problem with the machine is
likely with one thing. Find that one thing and you likely have only a
few components to buy and replace. It only takes one bad diode, coil,
fuse, connector, transistor etc to prevent a game from playing
properly.
Having said all of that another thought comes to mind. At the point in
time that your machine resets there are a whole wack of targets being
reset, lights being flashed and sounds being played. Have you checked
your voltages on the power supply board. I doubt this is the problem
but it is an easy test and would eliminate a power supply problem.
I hope it makes you feel better but I had this problem at one time,
just can't remember what I did to fix it. I do know that it was a
single point failure as I haven't done connectors or grounding on the
machine in question. You just need to find which thing is failing.- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
I'll try pulling fuses one at a time to see if I can isolate it that
way. I wont have any parts for a few days and it's fun trying to
figure it out. I did check voltages in the attract mode and found the
5VDC to be 4.8 so, I put it at 5.1 but, no change. All others were
correct. Should I check the voltages after it bombs out to see if
they are correct? Should they be correct in that condition? Is the
Back Box Power Supply Test Points the only locations I should be
checking?
Thanks, Bob- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
Last night, I tried pulling each fuse one at a time but, it still
locked up. I did find three fuses that were soldered in so, I
replaced the holders. One of the pop bumper fuses was a 15 amp so, it
was worth going through all of them. When it locks the displays turn
off most of the time but, sometimes the zero will get brighter(not
sure if that helps) I did check voltages at the power supply board
and bridge rectifiers before and after the lock up and they checked
the same. On one of the tests it almost sounded like the game said
"oh no" as it died. On another try the flippers became active. It
was never repeatable though. I also tried seperately unplugging all
of the pop bumper boards, two connectors under the middle of the
playfield, and the coin box connectors with no luck. I did check the
ac voltage across the two caps in the lower part of the cabinet. The
right one was about 17mVAC and the left was about 19mVAC. I did
double check the #17 test. It does cycle in the proper sequence and
triggers off of the start switch with no lock ups. Tonight, I'll
check the diodes. Hopefully, the new parts will show up for a weekend
thrash. I do have a two channel scope. Are there some checks I can
do with it? Maybe monitor some power outputs when I press start?
Thanks, Bob- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
Hi Bob,
as Steve has said, it is important to change that orange capacitor in
the cabinet to a new one. This is a key source of +5 VDC flakiness,
which what your problem sounds like. Other possibilities include 1) a
bad connector between the power supply board and the control (cpu)
board, although it sounds like you may have checked this, and 2) the
header pins on your power supply for the +5 VDC outputs may need the
solder reflowed. Also as Steve has said, other connectors may be
troubled, particularly the connector between the control and driver
board.
As the above writer has stated you may have control (cpu) board
problems as well; it would be time to look here after you have insured
a strong +5 VDC supply. The reset circuit, and battery corrosion
troubles come to mind here. Certainly your two channel 'scope would
come in real handy here, with a powered up board. RES line, IRQ
lines, address/data bus lines, crystal outputs, switch matrix ICs, and
more will be easily observed with the 'scope. Do you own a manual,
and/or the System 80 repair manual?
Good luck, and regards,
Dan
.
- References:
- Tech help needed on Black Hole
- From: ren4099
- Re: Tech help needed on Black Hole
- From: Mike W. from NJ
- Re: Tech help needed on Black Hole
- From: ren4099
- Re: Tech help needed on Black Hole
- From: Steve Charland
- Re: Tech help needed on Black Hole
- From: ren4099
- Re: Tech help needed on Black Hole
- From: hmortensen
- Re: Tech help needed on Black Hole
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- Re: Tech help needed on Black Hole
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- Tech help needed on Black Hole
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