Re: TECH: EM help with Captain Fantastic - sorta long

On Jan 24, 4:41 pm, thaiisland2...@xxxxxxxxx wrote:
On Jan 24, 12:40 pm, Ken <jetsurg...@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:





On Jan 24, 1:06 pm, thaiisland2...@xxxxxxxxx wrote:

On Jan 24, 10:51 am, chuckster <crrog...@xxxxxxx> wrote:

You are going to have to go all over ALL contacts, switches, steppers,
and solenoids to check for dirt, corrosion, rust, etc. very time
consuming but you can do it. Call PBR or BAA and buy some tools like
flex files, contact files, etc. Check out Marvins site and keep
posting any questions here on the "good ole RGP" and when you get
frustrated (and you will get frustrated) with it walk away for a few
days then go back to it. Stay away from WD40 and other lubes that may
be tempting to use.
EM's are meant to be played on a "regular basis", Think of a EM pin
like yourself, "IF" you sat around for 10 years doing nothing how
would you feel going out for a fast walk around the block and could
you do it.

On Jan 24, 1:29 pm, thaiisland2...@xxxxxxxxx wrote:

I just bought a Bally Captain Fantastic. It had been in unheated
storage for 10 years. The storage shed was dry however, I don't see
any visible water damage. I let it sit in a warmer environment for a
couple days before powering it up. When I first powered it up, I heard
a loud hum coming from the backbox area. I removed the backbox access
plate and the hum seemed to be coming from the credit reel area. I
advanced the credit reel manually and the hum went away. Now when I
power up the machine, the score motor in the bottom of the cabinet
runs constantly, and the coin door solenoids activate. There are
several credits on the machine.  The score reels never attempt to
reset, (there is only a score on player 1), there are no lights on at
all. Two stepper units in the backbox seemed gummed up, so I
dissassembled and cleaned those and the switch contacts on them, and
they now move freely. I inspected the 3 backbox connectors, (the
connectors that that have all the wiring from the backbox to the
cabinet) and they all have that white dust on them from being stored
so long. Also upon further inspection, about 3 wires, each about 3
inches long, broke completely loose from the female side of the
connectors. The wires seem extremely brittle.  I sanded the male pins
on the connector with 600 grit, but can't get into the female parts of
the connectors.  Also I might mention, the coin door is completely
missing the coin mechanisms. Also all fuses were checked with a meter
and are OK.  After the work I performed the symptoms have not
changed.  Where do I go from here? The original manual and schematics
are with the machine. I don't see any wiring diagram for the
connectors, so I'm not sure how to determine where to reattach those
broken wires. Can those female connectors be cleaned, or should they
be cleaned? Will the machine operate without coin mech's if you put it
in free play or if credits are on the machine? I've personally brought
around 7-8 machines back from the dead, so I'm not a newbie to pins,
but this is my first experience working on an EM and I feel like a
fish out of the water! I can read schematics. Any help would be
appreciated, as this really is a beautiful machine, is cosmetically in
nice shape,  and deserves to come back to life.. Thanks
Randy- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Where is the game over latch relay located? I've got files and other
supplies on order from Pinrestore. It would help my psyche alot just
to get the machine to do anything just to know I'm making some
progress. Maybe a machine that's been sitting 10 years isn't the ideal
first EM to learn on!
Randy- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

It's probably not the best machine to get running ASAP on, but for
learning, there is no better.  Trial by fire!  Hopefully not
literally. ;-)  Ballys are good machines and fairly easy to fix and
follow schematics.

The Game over latch relay is a double relay.  Latch on / Trip Off so
look for the relay with two coils on it.  This one likes to get flaky
on Williams and Bally games.  Most of the time it's just a matter or
re-alligning them, but springs break / go missing as well.

Bally likes to put them in the front left of the bottom cabinet, but I
don't know for sure on CF (Williams on the right front).  At any rate,
it's an easy coil to spot.  Latching and tripping by hand is the way I
test them, cleaning and adjusting as necessary.  Check the alignment
first and try the game, then clean.  This relay combo will control
feature lights, player # lights and ball count lights among other
features, so if you have a game started, but no Player 1 lit up or
Ball 1 lit up, this could be the culprit.

If your score reels aren't resetting, it could be the reset relay
which is pulsed by the score motor.  The reset relay most likely needs
to be cleaned.  Also, could be a broken feed that is daisey chained to
the reels.  Usually a solid yellow wire, but check the schematics.
There is a color chart on the schematics that is essential to learn
(or know where it is) as you will be referring to it while chasing
wires.

Normally, I agree with Shaggy and others who say only work on what you
need to and don't clean or adjust anything until you have a ball park
idea what circuit is offending, however, on an EM that has sat for so
long, my steps would be:

1.  Clean the machine as necessary but do not shop it yet.
2.  Lightly clean every contact in the relay stacks, but do not adjust
anything!  Don't forget the Drop target switches.
3.  Excercise all relays by hand and excercise the ball and player
steppers in the bottom box.  These like to freeze up and get
sluggish.  I have a Bally Champ that I have to pop the hood every few
weeks and excercise the steppers if the machine doesn't get played
enough.
4.  Do any obvious repairs like your wire / Jones plug dilema and
follow Levi's advice about matching color to color and pinching the
females (sounds kinky that way)
5.  Test the game and note what still doesn work.
6.  Now get out the schematics and follow the problems to do your
adjustments.

By lightly cleaning every switch, you will probably eliminate about
80-95% of all switch problems.  I also inspect every switch and move
it by hand.  I make sure every open switch closes, every closed switch
opens and/or every make-break switch makes or breaks as moved by
hand.  This doesn't solve everything, but hopefully 10 years of
corosion on the contacts will be removed so that the game plays
somewhat.

Keep us posted of your progress.  If you don't want to wait for the
flexstone file to arrive, you can always use old business cards.  The
rough textured, cotton ones work best.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I assume by all the switches, you also mean cleaning the ones on the
score motor assy.? Man, there's a ton of switches on that assy. alone.
I think Shaggy says to not adjust those switches if you don't know
what you're doing.
Randy
Randy- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Randy-Along w/the other info posted, just another suggestion. I
would solder those connections to the female part of the jones plug
first as Brian suggested. Just for a quick shot at having the score
motor stop after attempting to start a game, reset the score reels to
zero by hand, and then try to start a game and see if the motor does
not continue to spin, and post back The game over(latch/lock)relay is
extremely tempermental on this machine.(as other Ballys...at least I
have found this to be) Even when I think I have it adjusted by eye and
wearing magnifiers, I take a continuity tester(light kind)and make
sure each switch is "behaving" as it should. Good luck.

Russ Team-EM
.

Relevant Pages

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  • Re: TECH: EM help with Captain Fantastic - sorta long
    ... I inspected the 3 backbox connectors, ... The Game over latch relay is a double relay. ... By lightly cleaning every switch, ...
    (rec.games.pinball)
  • Re: RFM Launching 2 balls
    ... strange switch issues if the connectors are not seated properly. ... Your post got me to thinking.....I know that the game had the correct ... That lead me to focus on the trough opto boards. ...
    (rec.games.pinball)
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