Re: RFM Launching 2 balls

On Oct 10, 8:22 pm, "Borygard" <boryg...@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
YEAH!!! Congratulations!!!

Very happy you finally found the issue.

Also, very glad to read you used the diode test when you found you could
duplicate the issue. Ruling out the board is a must.

Very well done!!!

8-)

<dinot...@xxxxxxxxx> wrote in message

news:1192054782.351697.87900@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
On Oct 10, 5:46 pm, "dinot...@xxxxxxxxx" <dinot...@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:



On Oct 10, 5:40 pm, "dinot...@xxxxxxxxx" <dinot...@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:

On Oct 9, 9:01 pm, "Borygard" <boryg...@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

Still thinking shorted/loose wire somewhere around the trough assembly
or
bad solder joints (you've replaced the trough opto though, so solder
joints
on that board are pretty much ruled out unless the exact same issue
exists
on both boards). Did you replace both the transmitter AND receiver
side of
the trough opto boards?

Let's look at what the game's logic is doing...

Game has four balls in the trough, four LED transmitters are blocked
telling
the CPU that four balls are present and accounted for in the trough.

Game starts, and kicks out a ball to the shooter lane, now three balls
are
in the trough, three LED transmitters are blocked, LED2, LED3, and
LED4.
LED5 is now "closed" (remember LED switches are basically the opposite
of
regular switches, so instead of the switch being open with no ball
there,
it's actually closed because the LED receiver is seeing the
transmitter),
because there's no ball in the trough #4 position.

You launch the ball from the shooter lane and all of a sudden the game
kicks
out another ball into the shooter lane. Why? Well, my logic tells me
that
LED5, the LED for ball #4 in the trough, is momentarily loosing power
or
loosing it's connection to the CPU (shorted/loose wire/bad solder
joints)
that lets the CPU see that trough #4 doesn't have a ball in it. So in
effect, the game thinks that the ball went right back into the trough
after
being shot from the shooter lane, and so immediately kicks another
ball into
the shooter lane.

Same result if the ball stays in the shooter lane and starts rapidly
opening
and closing as you've described. The game thinks the ball is no
longer in
the shooter lane at one point because of the opening and closing of
the
switch. If trough opto #4 in that time for some reason opens (LED
power
lost, LED dirty, loose connection, etc.) then the CPU thinks the ball
is
actually not in the shooter lane, but back in the trough and thus
kicks
another out into the shooter lane.

Now this may very well be two separate issues. However, since you
indicate
that this condition only happens when trough opto #4 is closed, it
could be
somehow related.

You've ruled out the opto boards you've replaced because changing them
didn't change anything. Again, what I would be doing is putting the
game
into switch matrix test and wiggling wires. Wiggle the wires going
into all
of the opto boards related to the trough, wiggle the wires going into
the
switches in the same row and column as the trough optos and shooter
lane
switch, grab the diodes on the switches and ensure they're securely in
place
and not just making intermittent contact.

Also, keep in mind there are more places in PB2K where switch matrix
wires
go through connectors than most realize. The playfield is modular and
comes
out of the game completely by removing the Molex connectors at the
back of
the playfield. Check the connectors there, wiggle away in switch
test. So,
you've got the connectors at the opto boards, the connectors at
switches in
question, the connectors at the back of the playfield and the
connectors
going into the driver board at the bottom of the cabinet.

Don't forget the parallel connector that goes from the driver board to
the
CPU. Ensure it's seated all the way into it's connectors at the CPU,
the
driver board and the interconnect board at the back of the cabinet if
this
game has one.

<dinot...@xxxxxxxxx> wrote in message

news:1191969693.799181.102040@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

On Oct 8, 12:29 am, "Borygard" <boryg...@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
Another quick thought on this. Check your parallel cable going
from the
driver board in the bottom of the cabinet to the PC case in the
head. If
your game has an interconnect for the cables at the back of the
head,
check
the connections there too. Make sure they're connected securely.
I've
seen
strange switch issues if the connectors are not seated properly.

<dinot...@xxxxxxxxx> wrote in message

news:1191813661.069557.285950@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

On Oct 7, 9:32 pm, "Borygard" <boryg...@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
I'd say the most likely would be your possibility #2.

In fact, I'd check that the wires into the connector for the
trough
board
are in good, the solder joints for the connector on the board
are not
cracked as well as the solder joints for the LEDs.

Also, gently but firmly push side to side and up and down on
each of
the
LEDs to ensure they're securely attached to the board. A broken
lead
at
the
board on an LED can cause an intermittent problem.

<dinot...@xxxxxxxxx> wrote in message

news:1191805030.450310.298520@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

On Oct 6, 10:30 pm, "Borygard" <boryg...@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
wrote:
First the obvious, confirm there are only four balls in the
game.

If the # of balls is correct, go into switch test and see if
any
switches
are registering more than just the correct switch.

- Show quoted text -

Borygard,
Posting what looks to be the fix for archival and later
searches....
(keeping fingers crossed)
Your post got me to thinking.....I know that the game had the
correct
number of balls.....but what if the game didn't think it had
the
right
number of balls. That lead me to focus on the trough opto
boards. I
went ahead and swapped both boards with another WPC-95 game.
So far
that looks like it fixed the problem on myRFM. (I say so
far....I
put
in about 10 games) What sucks though is that the other pin
isn't
launchingmultiple balls. This leads me to think that it is one
of 3
possibilities:
1) The software on that game handles the situation of trough
opto 4
being open differently.
2) The problem was not in the optos but in the connectors on
the
trough boards and by removing them I in effect cleaned them
3) The problem never really leftRFMand I just got lucky in
those
10
games.

Thanks,
Dino
www.thetheos.com-Hidequotedtext-

- Show quoted text -

Grrrr!!!! Looks like the problem is still there. I guess that I
can
try to replace the connectors that plug into the trough opto
boards
themselves. Unfortunately I don't have that size in my parts bins
(I
only have .156" headers and connectors...I am guessing that those
connectors are .100"). Hopefully Radio Shack has them. I don't
care
about trifircons, I can do IDC connectors.
The frustrating part is that the diagnostics don't show any
problems.
I also went through and hit every switch in the switch test and
everything worked. The only problem I ran into was that if the
trough
opto switch was closed (no ball blocking the light path) and I
depressed the shooter lane switch, instead of being on constantly
the
shooter lane switch was being triggered very rapidly off/on. Once
I
placed that 4th ball in the trough (or used my finger to block
the
opto) the shooter lane switch sounded fine. This only happened
once or
twice and I don't know if it is the cause of my problems.
The only other thing I did differently when I replaced the
shooter
lane, top lane and loop switches was that I used 4007 diodes. Now
I am
no expert but I don't see that this would cause any issues...(I
seem
to remember that you can go up in size with diodes but not down
in
size)

Thanks,
Dino
www.thetheos.com-Hidequotedtext-

- Show quoted text -

Borygard,
I had the quick on/off condition on the shooter lane switch happen
again today. Remember this only happens when opto trough 4 is closed
and the shooter lane switch is tripped. So I quickly pulled

...

read more »- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

No....thank you!
I saw your email and it brought back some memories. I have 2 Audrey's
sitting in my closet.

Dino
www.thetheos.com

.

Relevant Pages

  • Re: RFM Launching 2 balls
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