Re: OT: Kinda prying here, but what does everyone do for a living?

Who signs YOUR checks? Your union? Ok who signs their check, you get
what I mean...

The contractor signs our checks. IE; A company Earning Monies, not
failing in business and struggling to keep afloat.

So by putting into this fund and training these new employees to
become journeymen those monies come from the people you work for. So
say what you want, the union pays for it or controls it, yada, yada,
yada. Bottom line it costs money to train these people and that money
comes from the contractors. (This is sarcasm in case you couldn't
tell)

Your apprentices should go pay someone out of their own pocket to
train them. Not to rely on funds being paid into some kind of central
pool (Do you see how I connected the same type of situation with you
talking about SUB)

They do pay, you must have missed that. They pay the same hourly wage
i pay, and they will pay it till they retire, as i also will.

Find out if your local gets government subsidies and gives tax breaks
for having these training programs. This is what I was talking about.
Your Union gets similar breaks as Ford.

My Union dort reley on the goverment to train our workforce like
Fords does. This is a goverment program to keep the work in the US. If
goverment programs aimed at keeping a workforce in America is what
fords needs than so be it. The american goverment will not pump money
into training of our brothers since our work is not leaving the
country.


Not following you here, except to see that you're not happy with yet
again what I'm getting and you're not. So it goes back to if I'm not
getting it you shouldn't either.

Hmmmmm, plain jane version. I pay to train my brothers that will
follow in my footsteps. Please follow this, I am a skilled trade
trained by the union, not some goverment subsidised program trying to
keep work in the US, by the way, the program is still failing, thus
your automotive business is still leaving Detroit and the US on a
daily basis.

Also during the day, i worked as an
apprentice, and while working as an apprentice, I STILL PAID for my
training.

Oh union dues? Nah that wasn't your money that was the companies
money?

yes, it is their money, atleast thats WHERE IT CAME from.

Contractor also advance people from our ranks. When we go on
a job, The top dog for that contractor running the job is not a suit,
but a graduated apprentice that knows what labor is talking about.

So now the training is thrown away because now the journeyman becomes
a boss?!?!? ;-)

When a boilermaker runs a job where boilermakers are employed, you
just *assume* training is throwin out the window, what you do seem to
forget that thats a union brother that still pays dues, knows the
contracts and understands the work needed. Does the suit that oversees
you know every step of the said process your involved in daily ? I
didnt think so.

BTW this isn't what you told me a couple months back when you were
bitching about some guy that had no idea what was going on because he
had no background. I was like heh, that par for the course here in the
plant. I'm trying to prove that these types of situations will arise
in any type of factory environment.

Working for someone that doesnt know what their doing is par for the
course for FORDS, it just happens with our business also. This is
addressed at union level, and dealt with. What we as a union cannot
afford is to leave a bad impression with the customer. Since we are a
hiring hall, that just dont mean i deal with the worker, i also get
called out as mangement/foreman from this same very hall.






You seem to know what the union will do and how much they will do so
why don't you predict this next contract. Right here and now tell us
what the stubborn UAW will do? Because as you put it giving up
retirement benefits, howerly wages being cut in half. Multi-tiered
hiring wages are no concessions, right? Or better yet maybe the UAW
should go to 5 bucks and hour, then the company will make money. Oh
wait then we'll get a profit sharing bonus.... Need to get rid of that
too. What do YOU think will save the company? No more vacation days?
LOL! So should I not take the check at the end of the year for my
unused time? Just to let you know the norm, at least at my plant, is
to NOT cover those that take a Vacation day. Mind you, these are
advance notice days also. You know what I'm told? Management would
rather risk not covering so they will look better to their boss with
the lower hours of record. I suppose that is the UAW's fault too
right?

http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=2007707240313

What you don't seem to understand is I choose not to compete with him/
her. I will not put myself into a life of squalor trying to survive on
below poverty level incomes because I choose not to. As well as my
brothers and sisters in the UAW will do also. i understand that there
is a happy medium but my leadership is the ones I have voted for to
handle this and handle it they will. Are they perfect? No. Will things
work out, hopefully. You just need faith and do a good job.

Just to give you an example of the quality of workers we are dealing
with overseas. Ford tried to launch a 5th generation alternator in
India. All I have to say is we currently make the 6th generation
alternator in my plant.

Above link should cover this.

How does this address the sub-skilled labor overseas where they had to
bring an ENTIRE manufacturing process back to the US because India was
incapable of producing a product that would exceed the 10 ppm return
rate we are striving for.

The point your missing is that your jobs as a UAW member are still
going overseas and abroad. You feel like its all about the jelous
people who dont get what you get. Maybe you should look down into our
low life low paying jobs WITH SECURITY that will be there even if the
auto plant leave the US, which last time i looked is happening at a
rate of 2 plants a year.

BTW, Did you look at that chart? Either they labeled it wrong or they
are indeed saying that for OVERTIME hours worked the costs go p as
high as the chart indicated. When was the last time I worked over 40
hours you ask? Ummmmm 2 years ago. Overtime is NOT there like it used
to be.

Now who sounds jelous about my overtime. Remember, if your wage
package were feasable to the company, your overtime wouldnt be an
issue, Thus your brothers jobs would still be in the US. and of
course, the UAW didnt write that artical, still dont mean that its
complete bull*** and Lies. You dont work over 40 hours since its not
feasable for the company to do so, bottom line. I believe that artical
is right, and your hourly wage package as it sits is right on par for
the course. There was no misprint there.




Also, they speak of reform of the health care but they don't
say where the 100 billion costs are caused from. It is the whole
company NOT just the "rank and file".

Notice the dip in Ford's costs? That is the concessions we gave up on
last contract.

And my point being, if you want the company to be competitive, you
make concessions. It is not just the rank and file they are talking
about. Thats as a company as a whole. Throw away the blue/white collar
bs on this as both classes work for that company. The white"s are
losing their jobs, benifits and a way of life as a concession. I dont
think the UAW wants to go that route, do you ?

Know what? You said the white collar works aren't getting walked out
of the places you contract for. I'm telling you it does happen each
and every day. Maybe not in a small mom and pop location but anything
of commercial size it happens every day.

And i agree'ed with this quote, but with your one way eyes, you see
its happening with alot of companies that are using services abroad,
mass firings is a product of the big 3. You are trying to make it
sound like you work for the almighty himself and what i do for a
living is some chicken *** mom an pop operation. For your
information, Union building trades build the plants that you work in.
And while we are there, there are no new construction projects lined
up with the big 3, they are all going to where they can afford to do
business. I do not see any of my companies walking 500 salray
employees out the door. What i do see is that my brothers in the right
to work states are staying busy building new auto plants to replace
Detorits money pits.

Never said they were almighty, but we are no matter how much you
disagree we are part of that structure.

What structure? Keeping them open because you don't get a vacation or
insurance? Tell ya what. I'll take the 6 bucks an hour and invest in
my own insurance with my brother in law and still have the same
coverage I do right now.

Thats fine, take your 6 bones and get your own, turn your back on the
same people who made your conditions. Please do get your own. By not
taking some or more concessions, this is basicly what your doing in
the long run anyways. read the bottom line of that article, bottom
line, if the company dont surrvive, you wont get ***. pension, gone,
sub pay gone, job gone.

No, it will never happen. But then again, your membership numbers
will never again reach the numbers you have today.

You're right because automation is taking over which means fewer hands
needed.

Fewer hands is still less jobs. Automation is taking over, now it all
rest on which labor is cheaper. Right now, id say that asian worker is
the better value of the big 3 than any UAW worker. As much as i hated
to say that, you leave me no choice in trying to prove my point.

Yes, number had to be cut in the auto industry because you did not
need to exponentially increase your work force to cover the added work
load in the mid to late 90s. When the work died off from something
called 911 and higher gas prices the work force has to be cut back.

Please dont blame the war mongers oil prices on the big 3's inability
to compete and stay profitable.

BTW, I didn't start this YOU did! By providing a rant about the UAW
that frankly wasn't asked for.

Yep, i started it and will defend my actions. I stand firm on these
belief's. The fact that you still counter everything i say with pro-
UAW quotes with no reguard to the health of the company you work for
is just showing everyone reading this post between you and i on how
stubbron the UAW realy is, im letting you yourself prove this part of
my point.

I think we can both agree this is a pinball news group and you and I
both hate when people do this but alas I got caught up in it. I NEVER
talk politics and never thought I would get into something like this.

Yes, id rather do this face to face. Any day of the week will i talk
union to you, just now it wont be over a phone, it has to be face to
face.

I think that is wonderful and really do appreciate it. With all of the
wonderful cars that are made right here in the states I find it hard
to see how some justify going elsewhere

I agree. But with that being said, please classify what "american
made" is now in days. Sure that ford is "assembled and designed" in
the US. What your failing to see is all the jobs lost to the parts of
the cars that USED to be made in the US. Wiring Harness is made in
Mexico, Dash Boards are made in Indonosia, Radiators are made in
germeny and so on and so on. Now it makes me wonder which vechicle is
american made, the way i see it, that Tundra is just as much an equal
to the more expensive ford product since they are both built here. I
remember i was all proud of my Camaro that was American made, but
after opening the hood of my "US" made product with a US trademark
name on it, i find out my new car was built in Canada. The quality has
always been there, remember, JD power and assocites just ranked 5 of
fords top sellers there in the tops of its class, all which have
outsourced parts coming from companies that do not do business in the
US anymore. So you speak so much about quality, but can your prove we
are still getting it. Please, go buy replacement parts for your truck.
Get the Ford parts from a ford dealer in a ford box and see where its
made.

I threw this out as a dig because you threw in my face how my SUB pay
puts a burden on the state. This was not meant to say you shouldn't do
these things it was meant to get this EXACT reply from you.

Not only do you collect from the job bank while not working, you also
collect unemployment to fufill your lost wages for not working. You
still dance around the key questions. These are ferdral taxes taking
out of every check. its a goverment program, not a burden on my
employers. People in the US are dying for jobs, all the while your
fighting to be paid in full while not working.

See, you paid into the system through your own accord. You choose to
do with your money as you see fit. Be it to work balls to the wall for
6 months or 3 on and 3 off it doesn't matter. You've paid into the
system through your hourly wage and thus you are entitled to use it as
you see fit for your needs. So when I pay into my SUB fund I am
entitled to do so because it is the money I earned.


I thought I already explained. Employee enticement, staying power,
long-term employees, no quick turnover. If these companies were not
paying higher wages, offering benefits, and overall making it
attractive (VACATION DAYS) to come to the same business year after
year the employee turnover would be HUGE which is EXACTLY what use to
happen years ago. These are the same tactics used by business all over
this country and others are not going bankrupt because of vacation
days. Just because you don't get them does not mean the rest of the
country shouldn't.

I realy cant figure out why you have such a blind eye when it comes
to the fact that YOUR company has been losing money for the last 12 of
13 quarters. But please, keep taking your paid vacations, its in your
contract, it dont hurt the company at all, hell , they dont even feel
the bite of paying you for not working. They even make more money
while they are paying you not to be there LMAO!!!!! If that isnt the
biggest oxymoron ive ever heard. But please, dont keep the blind eye
to the fact that it is *your* company that is shipping *your* jobs
abroad, since its cheaper to pay a man his 75 cent weekly salary for
the comapny to make any type of profit.

I realy dont see why a company would have to entice you to work
there. Getting a paycheck should be all of enough enticement for you
to show up and stay employed. What happened years ago with a heavy
turnover is not happening now. Again, go down to the unemployemnt
office and take your poll. I will say it again, theres about %8 of
people living in Michigan that would take half of what your getting to
have your job, their enticement is a weekly paycheck. Times change,
work is hard to find, a company shouldnt have to entice you for
anything but with cash for a days work. The UAW not only represents
autoworkers, it also has smaller branchs and diffrent business they
represent, and to tell you the truth, ive worked for one of them
companys ( Inland Waters, Detroit Michigan, Schafer and Fort Street)
and they dont get all the perks you get, but they are still there to
take a job from a union brother at a cut rate. And i am positive that
alot of them white collar workers that lost their jobs and hold 20
years senority would love to step in, take your job for a cut rate and
be happy with it. Another point you seem to fail to recognize.

And honestly, you have no idea how i feel about this. Maybe a new
toyota would curb your attitude about the almighty UAW and the already
half imported cars being sold here with US brand trademark names on
them. I never denied that fact that you all made concessions, my main
point was are you willing to make more concessions to keep your jobs
here. maybe your right, your company is paying huge taxes on
properties that sit vacant for years, waiting to see if there is a
suitor willing to pay the price and gamble on labor in Detroit. Until
then, them vacant lots and closed plants are just a sign that you as a
UAW member fail to see, that your driving your business elsewhere.
That companies cant compete in a pro uaw envoriment. The labor force
in Detorit is just not all cut out like the UAW wants it to be, thus
business are taking their busines elsewhere, for a lower wage/overhead
and higher company profits.

My intent was never to piss off the UAW workers of this board as i
have done, but everything i say has reason to it. The fact the you
blow me off as a UAW hater jealous of what you get that i dont is just
is just another testiment of how stubbron the uaw can and will be. How
many more jobs does the US have to lose to cheap labor? How many more
plants/companies are going to choose Texas over Michigan due to
current labor contracts ? You always see local goverment getting
involved in labor talks. The big 3 was born in Detroit, but realy, is
it still the motor city ? The plants in Detroit are outdated. Upgrades
and revisions cost the company millions, almost to the point of
building a new plant to satisify the companys needs. Where you going
to put that new plant ? i know if i was in a business, id put it where
goverment tax breaks make it feasable to do business in that city, and
where i can afford that labor pool. Id drop that new plant right smack
dab in the middle of nowhere USA. Where unemployment rate is booming
with want to be employed people. People who want the company to suceed
in business. People that feel they are lucky to have that job instead
of thinking the company owes it to them. And a goverment that can
handle the tax breaks givin without putting the city in a pinch.
Business is in business to make money, something none of the BIG 3
have done on a regular basis for years, even with your concessions.
And to say that the big 3 and UAW dont hurt or help the economy, well
i would think the city we both love and live and work in would be a
reminder to you on how much the BIG 3 means to Detroit. The big 3
fails in Detroit, this will be one large land mass of wasteland.

When America works, we all live good. Our economy sucks right now. To
say that we the consumer that buy your companies products do not pay
any of your wages and perks such as your cherished job bank is just
plain ignorant. Without the consumer, you work for who ? I for one
hate to see our jobs shipped overseas, north or south of our borders
when our country is suffering already. But in the changing times of
business where the only number that seems to count is capital gain, we
as union workers have to protect our work by any means possible. And
if thats taking more than what your willing to give up, then i guess
that big chunk of pride that you refused to swallow will pay your
bills.

John
jdubbbs


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