Re: [40k] 5th Ed Rumour

In article <ea0ebd14-e310-4f8b-979e-90d16c6f2686
@c4g2000hsg.googlegroups.com>, JohnPaulPontiff@xxxxxxxxx says...

Hey,

Online rough draft RB rumour from an unnamed benefactor!
Most of these rumoured rules read like FAQ bandaids.
Many appear to be Tito Tissue for chronic snivellers.
(You know who you are!)
Some are just ... odd.

Remember, this is still just a steaming pile of rumour.
Also, Ph34r my banal editorialisations:

+++

5th Ed Movement Phase: Substantially as v4.

Shooting Phase = Shoot or Run Away:
In their Shooting phase, Units may instead choose to Run d6in.
Units that Run cannot Assault in the following Assault phase.

Ahh, throw the IG a bone. Or are we adding a feral 'Orcs &
Goblins' army to 40K?

Fish of Fury players take note -

Intervening models and units block LoS:
If a model is partially obscured by friendly or enemy models,
it cannot be targeted. Models are not allowed to shoot through
the gaps between the members of an intervening unit.

Now note the inevitable exceptions -

Covering Fire:
A unit can always shoot through an intervening unit
that is partially obscuring a target if it is impossible
for all of the the firing models' weapons to hurt the
intervening unit. Example - When firing against enemy
models sheltering next to a tank with weapons that
cannot hurt the tank itself.

Ok, this is down right counter intuitive and bound to cause a
***-load of arguments.

And further down, under What Counts As 4+ Cover?
"Other models". Lovely.

WHAT THE ***...


Inscrutable BS6+ Unit rule:
Re-roll whenever rolling a 1 to hit:

Firer's BS 6 7 8 9 10
Score To-Hit 2/6 2/5 2/4 2/3 2/2

Good Lord - what next? 'I can haz vehicle movement templates 2 plez?
kthxbye!'

You heard it here first kids - buy big bags of lichen. You'll need them
when the 'Bio-wire Bombs' and 'IG assault troopers with jump-packs' make
their return in the *brand new* "Rogue Trader" rules set.

(Personally I'm looking forward to the return of conversion beamers and
tactical nukes - which will be easily simulated on the table top with a
can of lighter-fluid and some matches! Soak table with flammable
liquid, light match, throw, and run... Ka-FLOOM! FTW!!!)



Example - A model with BS 7 rolls a 1 To-Hit
and may re-roll. But this time, it will Hit
only on a 5+.
Note - If a model has a special rule that confers
a re-roll To-Hit, that re-roll takes precedence.

Ah yes, because GW's WFB and 40K just *DON'T* have enough dice
rolling in them already, and adding yet more cluggy dice rolling
mechanics will definitely speed things up and improve over-all game
flow. INGENIOUS!!!
On top of which, from an army design / points cost stand point,
why the hell would I want to pay the points cost for an Uber model with
a BS of 7 or more? Since re-rolls take precedence, and almost any form
of 'master crafting' or twin-linking is going to be a far far better
option points wise, why the hell would I even WANT something with a BS
of 7+ as one would need a BS of 10 just to *equal* a BS 5 with re-roll?

This is a fine example of a 'useless game mechanic' that adds nothing to
the game *that it doesn't already have* while slowing things down with
yet more dice rolling. GAAAAHHHH!

The new "Relentless" USR:
RF and Heavy Weapons are counted as stationary even
if the Unit Moved in the previous Movement Phase.
Relentless Units may also Assault in the same turn.

Ok, what besides Termies has this sort of rule where it really
makes any difference from the current edition?


Area Terrain vs Cover rules
Targeted models inside AT: Targeted models whose
bases are at least partially inside AT always count as in
Cover, regardless of the direction of the Shooter.

This doesn't sound terribly broken - but under other circumstances
(I.e. non-GW games) I'd argue a bit of common sense should apply.
However, I can easily see folks claiming that an open top sandbag bunker
is providing 'area terrain' cover to models within if a blast template
weapon hits inside the bunker area. A circumstance which I would
normally argue negates the cover saves due to the direction of the
attack (I.e. the center of the blast template is on the same side of the
cover as the models being hit). This would be pretty obvious if the
target models were simply behind a wall, and the center of the blast
template landed on the same side of the wall as the models caught in the
blast - but I can see folks trying to argue the area terrain / cover
save rules none the less.

But when Shooting out of AT: Shooters inside AT
may fire through up to 2in of the AT they occupy
without conferring a Cover save to the target.

This I don't have a problem with as one can easily picture a unit
in the edge of a forest shooting out at another unit in an open field.
I can see the shooters having a reasonably clear view of the target,
thus the target unit doesn't benefit from cover. (2 inches deep into
area terrain would let one get most or all of the firing unit into
position without having to have every single model strung out right
along the edge of the terrain piece - thus needing some really large
terrain in the case of large units - like IG, Eldar, Orks, or Nids.)
Further into the woods (or other area terrain) then it gets to be a
gamble as to whether shots hit the target or intervening terrain.


Voluntary Pin, or, "Go To Ground":
After any enemy To-Hit and To-Wound rolls
against your Unit, you can declare that the
affected Unit has Gone To Ground. The Unit can do
nothing in its following turn, but its models
receive a +1 to their Cover Saves and become Pinned.
If the unit is not in Cover, it receives a 6+ Cover
Save. At the end of their following turn, the Unit
is the free to act as normal.

Note - While Pinned the Unit may do nothing of
its own volition, but will react normally when
affected by enemy action (for example, it will
take Morale tests as normal). If Assaulted or if
it must Fall Back, the Unit immediately returns to
normal. Vehicles may never be Pinned.

I can see this as being of marginal value for units desperately
trying to hang onto objectives.


Casualties vs Coherency:
After taking all Saves and establishing the number of
models to be removed, the controlling player may remove
another model in the Unit in place of any of the models
Wounded, as long as both models have the same profile,
rules and wargear.

So, does this mean that special/hvy weapons troopers are once
again vulnerable to template weapons, or being picked off if they're
'out in front' or otherwise one of the only visible targets of a
shooting attack?


Units of Multi-Wound models:
Remove whole multiple-Wound models from the
Unit as casualties where possible - Wounds may
not be 'spread around' to avoid removing models.
Thus, excess Wounds are recorded on a single model
in the Unit (the last to suffer Wounds).
When models in this kind of unit are hit by
weaponry with enough Strength to cause Instant
Death, the player cannot remove that one
Wounded model in order to get rid of the leftover
Wound, but must first remove whole healthy models.

This seems unchanged from the current rules, or am I missing
something?

Weapon Characteristics

RF:
Moved - Shoot twice at targets up to 12in away.
Not Moved - Shoot once at targets over 12in away,
up to its maximum range.
What? Can't shoot models nearer than 12in?

Models that wish to Assault into close combat in
the Assault Phase may not Shoot with RF weapons in
the Shooting Phase.

Rending:
vs Non-vehicles - A To-Wound roll of 6 Wounds at AP2
regardless of target T.

Since nothing that I know of has a 1+ save, this pretty much stays
the same (I.e. 6 = autowound with no save except invulnerable or cover).

vs Vehicles - An AP roll of 6 adds a further d3AP.

This is a MUCH BETTER 'fix' for the rending rules than any of the
alternatives I've seen previously discussed. For the Nids, it would
mean that while Stealers and Lictors can still peel open light vehicles,
no more popping Land Raiders, and they'd have to get lucky to glance a
Leman Russ if assaulting from the front. While it would decrease the
anti-vehicle effectiveness of some of my better HTH troops, I'm frankly
all for it. It would reduce the anti-vehicle effectiveness of the
assault cannon as well, but still allow it a chance to knock out the
heavy stuff. (Well, I was pleased until I saw the proposed new vehicle
damage rules - this effectively neuters a ton of lists including the
whole of the Tyranid lists.)


Sniper:
Hits Wound on a 4+, regardless of target T.
In addition, Sniper weapons Pin and Rend.

Is that auto-pin, or are we talking a morale check?

Against Vehicles, Sniper Weapons simply roll 2d6AP
(No modifiers, including their Rend bonus).

So, not really different here.
(No sniping a Land Raider for joo!)

Mixed T and WS:
Multi-T target Units use Majority T.
Majority WS when Attacked.
Individual WS when Attacking.

Seems reasonable to make the game flow without being overly
advantageous or disadvantageous in one form or another.

Special CCWs

Poisoned Weapons:
Always wound on a fixed number (4+, 3+, or even 2+).
However, if the Strength of the model wielding the
Poisoned Weapon is equal or higher than the
opponent's Toughness, the attacker uses the
normal Wound chart, but can re-roll failed To-Wounds.

Not sure how much this will change things...

Lightning Claw:
Still re-roll any failed To-Wound roll.
However, only a second Lightning Claw can
provide an Additional CCW Attack Bonus for
a model equipped with a Claw.

And this is a huge balance fix by removing one attack potentially?

Power Fist:
Still doubles the user's S (up to a maximum of 10).
Strikes are now always delivered at Initiative 1.
(Ignoring bonuses from special rules, Wargear, etc.)
However, only a second Power Fist or Thunder Hammer
can provide an Additional CCW Attack Bonus for a
model equipped with a Fist.

So, do I still get to choose whether I use the P-Fist or not if I
do take a 2nd non-power fist CCW? There are certainly times where
striking first is better than having S10 and not living long enough to
strike at all.


Witchblade:
Inflict Wounds on a 2+, regardless of target
Toughness, though Armour Saves are taken as
normal. Against Vehicles, the wielder of a
Witchblade counts as having S9.

Not really familiar with the Eldar stuff. How much of a change is
this really?

Force Weapon:
Have finally lost the 'no prior test' rule.

Ouchie - Fear the Librarians. While this makes more sense and
makes the Librarians more useful in HTH, it also means they'll move up
towards the tops of everyone's SHOOT FIRST lists. It also begs the
whole wound allocation question again - can the Librarian be
specifically targeted in HTH? If I have a Carnifex that's assaulted by
a unit of marines with a Librarian, can I dump all my attacks on him
first? Or does he get to use most/all the other marines as ablative
armor before the fex can hit him?


Morale Checks
(Units below half-strength are still at -1 Ld)

Heroic Morale:
Double 1 Morale Check rolls autopass.

Casualties:
25% in *any* Phase forces a Morale Check.

Fallback Units:
If moved through friendly squads, resolve the FB Move and
then roll a Morale Check for every friendly Unit moved through.
If passed, they continue to fight on. If failed, they Fall Back.
Units Locked or already Falling Back are excepted.

Oh goody, that'll be great for IG, Orks, etc. And of course 40K
NEEDS TO BE just like WFB. I look forward to the version of 40K where
my Zoanthropes have a dispell dice pool.


FB after Losing an Assault:
Units have their Ld modified by -1 for each Wound by which their
side lost the combat. This malus is in addition to the normal -1
for being below Half-strength.

What about outnumbering your foe? No bonus for that? And what
about the 'Spacey Mariens' and 'No Fear' aye?

FB through enemies or Impassable Terrain:
If a model's Fall Back move takes it into contact
with Impassable Terrain, the table edge or any
enemy model, the FB model is removed.

Ok, how can you move through a friendly 'locked' unit (as above)
and NOT be subject to this via 'FB through enemies'? This is virtually
a non-issue except in the case of really large friendly units engaged in
HTH.


FB Shooting:
Fallback Units may not Go To Ground
and automatically pass Pinning tests.
FB Units may continue to shoot, but are obviously
moving. They may choose to Run instead of Shooting,
but if they do so, it must be toward the closest table
edge, subject to all the rules for FB Movement.

FB Morale modifiers:
+1 If no enemy Units in LoS.
(Good luck on that one...)

+1 If the majority of the Unit is inside AT.
'inside AT' - what's 'AT' stand for?


FB Morale:
FB Units autopass all Morale Checks, except Regroup:
A FB Unit may make a Regroup Check in the Movement
Phase just before its turn to Move if:
1. The unit is not below Half-strength.
2. There are no enemies within 6in.

Pretty much standard with the 'spacey mariens' getting the usual
'And They Shall Know No Fear' universal rule.

If passed, it Regroups; The unit can immediately move up
to 3in unaffected by DT (Dangerous tests taken as normal),
to regain Unit Coherency if possible. Once a Unit has Regrouped,
it cannot Move during that Movement Phase, but otherwise
behaves as normal. For example, it can Shoot (as having Moved)
or Run, and may Assault if it gets the chance.

If failed, or cannot Regroup because of the restrictions
given above, it will continue to Fall Back.

Fearless CC Losers:
These Units will not Fall Back. Instead, each of these units
suffer a number of Wounds (allocated as normal) based on how
heavily their side was Outnumbered:
1 Wound if Outnumbered by its opponents.
2 Wounds if Outnumbered 2:1 or more.
3 Wounds if Outnumbered 3:1 or more, etc.
Note - the final draft may make these penalties cumulative!

Well, this covers 'Spacey Mariens' sort of... So, does that mean
if I outnumber a fearless opponent by 3:1 I get to inflict 6 extra
wounds (1+2+3)?



Also, Armour and Invulnerable saving throws can be
taken against these Wounds as normal, but Walkers
suffer Glancing Hits instead of Wounds. Each Walker or
MC counts as 10 models, and other models with more than one
Wound on their profile count as a number of models equal
to the Wounds value shown on their profile.

So, does this mean if I have a lone Genestealer and a swarm of
termigants in HTH with a Marine Dread (assuming that the dread misses
with its HTH attacks), and the stealer scores a glance, that the gants
get to cause additional glancing hits if they 'out-number' the dread
since they're part of the HTH?


Special Characters:
"Unique" is the new "Individual" (1 per army).


What??? I can't have 3 copies of the exact same chapter master in
one list? Outrageous! ;) (And yet another hint at the title of the
5th Edition... "Warhammer Fantasy Battle 40K" Like I said, I'm still
waiting for my dispell dice - not to mention rank bonus...)

Some CoD rules are to be included, also:

Ruin models are considered Area Terrain.
Those without bases are DT. Roofs = 4+ CSv.
3D Range/ distance is still measured base to base -
Coherency is measured model to model.
This is also used to determine contact for Assaults.
Vertical Mv may not be fractional (full storeys only).
Template/ Blast/ Barrage rules are as CoD.

Including these in the core rules is actually a decent idea (even
if the CoD scenarios don't make it into the core rules) since a fair
number of gamers have lots of city terrain even if they aren't doing a
CoD specific game.

Unit Types and their Special Rules

MCs: As v4 but with the Relentless USR.

Does this really help Daemon Princes, etc? The Nids don't much
care since all of their stuff is assault for the most part.

Jump Infantry vs Jet Packs:
JI are said to have an optional 12in Movement.
JPs, a 6in Mv with optional 6in Mv in the Assault Phase.
JIs are said to Shoot as normal Infantry.
JPs gain the Relentless USR.
Both sorts Assault as normal Infantry.

So, mostly Tau units would gain a bonus from the Jet Packs gaining
the Relentless USR. Off the top of my head I can't think of any other
Lists that have Jet Packs.

Bikes: As v4, but with the Relentless USR.
Also, Bikes may not Run Away in their Shooting Phase.

Beast/ Cav:
May choose to Run or Fleet in the Shooting Phase.
Since Runners can't Assault, the option seems useless.

Agreed - seems damn silly, but that's GW.

Arty:
All are AV10. Any G/P Hit autodestroys the target model.

Besides Orks, who really has much in the way of Arty units that
aren't vehicles?


If their Gunners are all removed, the Gun model is removed too.
We are then told that if there are no Gunners, Guns may not move.

Woohoo - go proof reading and common sense!

Arty Units may not Run or Go To Ground, but may be Pinned.
Arty Units failing a FB roll are removed as Destroyed.

Vehicles take up @ a third of the book:

All Vehicles draw LoS from each targeting weapon's Mounting.
All Vehicle weapons measure Range from their Muzzles.

(While I can see this being designed to stop certain forms of
abuse, it does seem a bit anal about it while ignoring the fact that in
game models aren't supposed to be imagined as being 'static'. Standing
figures can crouch behind low walls, vehicles aren't rooted to the spot,
etc. What if the gun mount on a model broke and is now glued in place?
Which I'm sure we've all seen. Is the gun forever stuck forward in
game? Which would suck with 'measure range from the muzzle' and a rules
lawyer opponent. {Makes me glad I use magnetic mounts for most of my
weapons so they can rotate freely.})

All Vehicles are targeted by measuring to its Hull.
All Vehicles have the Relentless USR.

So, why the hell do you even need the Relentless USR if they're
going with the rules below? WTF...

New Epicoid Vehicle Movement Terms:
Combat Speed = up to 6in Mv. (Reduced Shooting unless Fast)
Cruising Speed = 6-12in. (No Shooting unless Fast)
Fast (Flat Out? Yeesh.) = 12-18in. (No Shooting at all)

What, nothing moves 24 inches? What about bikes with Turbo boost?
Frankly this doesn't really sound any less cumbersome than the current
4th Ed defensive/offensive vehicle weapons rules.

Cruising Speed vs DT:
If a DT test is failed, the Vehicle halts immediately.
If it was attempting to enter DT, it stops just outside.
If the Vehicle has moved up to 6in, the test is taken on
a d6, otherwise it is taken on 2d6. If any die rolls a 1,
the test is failed and the Vehicle suffers a Damage/
Immobilised result. A 2-6 means it can continue Moving.
If both dice roll a 1, the Vehicle suffers a Destroyed/
Wreck result.

Cruising Roads:
Non-Walker/ Skimmer Vehicles that follow a road
for their entire Movement Phase may Move up to
double their maximum speed, but only if they
do not do anything else that turn. No Difficult
Terrain tests, shooting, embark/ disembarking,
or use of vehicle upgrades (Smoke, Lights, etc.)

Vehicle Weapon Type vs Arc of Fire:
Turret = 360deg.
Pintle (aka Bolt-on) = 360deg.
Sponson = 180deg.
Hull = 45deg.

New VD Table:
<=1 = Shaken (As v4, passengers may not use FPs)
2 = Stunned (As v4, passengers may not disembark or use FPs)
3 = Damage/ Weapon D (As v4)
4 = Damage/ Immobilised (As v4)
5 = Destroyed/ Wreck (As v4, passengers disembark, take Pin test)
6 = Destroyed/ Explode (Crew gone, S3 AP- Hit to models within d6in)
"Wrecked" Vehicles become D/DT and provide a Cover Sv.
"Damage" may be Repaired.
"Explode" = passengers disembark, Sv vs S4 AP- Hit, take Pin test

Do 'Exploded' vehicles become terrain and provide cover, or are they
simply removed when they vaporize themselves in their explosive death?


VD Table Modifiers:
Glance = -2

Now this rather sucks as it's pretty much impossible to destroy an
enemy vehicle with a glancing hit.

AP- Hit = -1
AP1 Hit = +1

Oh come on! FFS! How many AP1 weapons are there in the game?

OT target = +1

This well and truly sucks in my humble opinion. Now a MC that
gets a penetrating hit has only a 1 in 3 chance of actually destroying a
typical non open-topped vehicle. WTF!!! Add the difficulty of
actually scoring hits on most moving vehicles, and the limited accuracy
and availability of Nid weapons to actually penetrate AV 13 or 14 and
why bother with them at all? Frankly I was hoping with a 2D6 system
where the extra penetration score resulted in a bonus to the damage
dice.

Example: Target model is AV 12 on the facing being attacked. A
penetration roll of 12 = glancing, 13 = 2D6 with no modifier, a 14 = +1
to the 2D6, a 15 = +2 to the 2D6, etc.

If the above rules stand, a Carnifex would have a 1:6 chance to hit a
moving vehicle, followed by a 1:3 chance to destroy with a penetrating
hit - which works out to a 1:18 chance to knock out a moving vehicle.


Vehicles Hull-down or Obscured get Cover Saves vs VD.
Where unspecified, Obscuring Wargear confers a 5+ CSv.
Shots against any facing but the closest confer a 3+ CSv.
Where not specified in your Codex, Smoke confers a 5+ CSv.

So now, not only are vehicles much better in HTH, but they're
getting cover saves too??? (Not to mention that I thought smoke
automatically 'obscured' the target which would mean it got a +5 CSv by
default.)


Vehicles vs Grenade/ Bomb Damage:
Defensive Nades = 4+d6
Assault Nades = 5+d6
Krak = 6+d6
Melta = 8+d6

So, a melta-bomb can't destroy a Land Raider as it can only glance
AV 14 at best? That's some damn fine ass-hattery right there Bob!



Squadron rules
Move: Unit Coherence is still 4in. Immobilised or Stunned
Vehicles left behind by a Moving Squadron become Wrecks.

So, if a unit's immobilized and it gets left behind it magically
'self-destructs' - that's just plain dumb. Why would the pilot of a
stunned speeder or the pilot an immobilized IG walker simply 'bail out'
on an otherwise still functional vehicle? I can see requiring the
vehicle to rejoin the squadron a.s.a.p. but destroyed?

Shoot: Squadron Vehicles cannot shoot through members of
their own Unit like non-vehicle models can.
Assault: In close combat, enemy units must treat each
model in a Vehicle Squadron as if it was a separate unit.

Transports
Firepoints: Measure Range and LoS from the Points.
Dedicated: Must Deploy with Unit, thereafer may transport any
friendly Unit unless disallowed by other rules.

Back to the 'Rhino Taxi' concept again are we?

Tank Shock: Friendly models are Impassable Terrain.
May not TS Locked Units. Shocked Units Check vs Fallback.
DoG: One autohit Attack only. Ranged or CC (Nade, Melta, etc.)
Models failing the test are removed.

So, is that one autohit 'per model' making a DoG stand, or one per
unit?

Ram (As TS, but always at Maximum Speed):
Overrun Non-Vehicle Units suffer TS as normal.

Ramming and Rammed Vehicle Damage:
Resolve hits vs affected facing. Strength =
1 for every AV over 10
1 for every 3in Moved by Ramming Vehicle
1 if a Vehicle of Type: Tank

Example: A Land Raider Rams a Chimera in its Side.
The Land Raider Front AV is 14 (14-10= S4),
Moved 10in before impacting the Chimera (10/3= +3S) and
is a Tank (+1S). Therefore, the Chimera suffers a
Strength 8 hit against its Side AV (S4+3+1).
The Land Raider suffers a Strength 4 hit against its
Front AV (Str0 for the side AV 10, S3 for the LR
Movement and +1 because the Chimera is a Tank).

Gee, nearly identical to the Ramming 'House Rules' that Maka and I
came up with in 3rd Ed ages ago, and which sat on the RGMW.org website
for years.


If the Rammed vehicle Explodes, the Rammer may continue
its Move into another Vehicle or its max Mv distance.

Like I asked before, if a vehicle explodes (rather than merely
wrecked) is it removed from the table top and replaced with a smoking
crater?


Fast Vehicles
Shooting: Combat Speed as Stationary; Cruising, all Defensive
Weapons and one Main Weapon. Flat Out, may not Shoot.
Assault: Are Hit on a 6 if Cruising or Flat Out.
Transport: May not Dis/Embark before or after Flat Out.

Skimmers
Move: Ending over D/D/I Terrain forces a DT Test.
Immobilised: Combat = Landed; Cruise or Fast = Wreck.
Shooting: Cruising or Fast Skimmers get a 5+ CSv.
Assault: Enemies need 6s To-Hit if not Immobilised.

Walkers
Move: As Infantry. Failed DT tests Immobilise.
Shoot: May Run in the Shooting Phase.
Shoulder or Arm-Mounted Weapons have 180deg AoF.
Assault: Locked Walkers may not be Shot.
CCs are always resolved vs Front AV.
Nade/ Bomb attacks vs Walkers need a 6 To-Hit
unless the Walker is Stunned or Immobilised.
A Walker Stunned or Immobilised is at -1A (min 1),
but may still Sweep, Pile-in or Consolidate.
Walkers do not roll Morale Checks, but each VD roll
counts as a Wound for CC resolution.
Ram: A failed DoG attempt resolves a Ram va its Rear AV.

Lame new Scoring Unit rule:
Only Troops Units count as Scoring in 5th ed . . .
Troops Units are Non-scoring only when noted in its profile,
if a Vehicle or if Falling Back at the end of the game.

So, everyone's going to hide all the fragile troops units until
the end of the game. How are armys without solid transports (like nids,
orks, D.E., etc) supposed to have any scoring units at the end without
doing nothing but praying that there's enough area terrain to hide in
until the last couple of turns. Between this and the new vehicle rules,
the 'Suck-O-meter' has gone into overdrive.


Deployment protocol:
First normal Deployments, then Infiltrators, then Scouts.

Deep Strike:
DS Units may Shoot as having Moved but not Assault.
Transports may now DS and count as having Moved 12in!

2d6in Scatter and the Mishap Table: If any of the models
in a Deep Striking Unit cannot be deployed because it
would be offtable, in Impassable Terrain, on top of a
friendly model, or within 1in of an enemy model, roll 1d6:
1 = Entire Unit Destroyed at full VP.
2,3 = Entire Unit removed at Half-strength VP.
4-6 = Opponent Deploys entire Unit anywhere on the table.

WTF exactly is wrong with the current DS rules?

Night Fight in 5th Ed:
Max Range is 2d6x3in, rolled before Shooting.
Barrage Weapons are excepted, but add +d6in Scatter.

Lame new Reserve and Secrecy rules:
Reserve Units must be *declared*, including their Organisation.
IE, "Dedicated Transport", "Infiltrator", "Deep Striker", "Scout"
and whether ICs are attached to other Units, etc.

Ok, I'm not really sure what the problem is with this? I'm of
the impression that it was always good sportsmanship to declare which
units went with which transports, and which IC's had joined specific
units *before* rolling for reserves. (It prevents the temptation to
magically alter the 'organization' while rolling the reserve dice.)

Then, just to turn the Suck up to '11' -
Opponents must *also* be warned of any Infiltrator/ Scout Units
earmarked to Deploy out of their table edge DZ on arrival.
These units, when available, are randomly Deployed. :- \

Roll a d6 -
1,2 = Deploy from LH table edge.
3,4 = Deploy from RH table edge.
5,6 = Player may choose LH or RH. Kooky.

Yummy! Yet more suckage. Apparently designed by yet another student of
the Gav -More dice rolls = better product- Thorpe school of thought.
Because after all, everyone knows that war is nothing more than a whole
series of entirely random events. Commanders never really have any
influence on the outcome, it's all just a crap-shoot. Talk about a
stupid F'ing rule that renders scouts and infiltrators virtually
useless...


Secrecy: There is none. Players may now demand to see your
Force Roster at any time during a match. Lulz.

Personally I've always played this way - as I've seen more than a
couple of games end with hard feelings when it became apparent during or
after the game that one of the players had serious errors in their list.
More than one was an honest math error, which if it had been caught at
the beginning of the game and corrected would likely not have resulted
in hard feelings. On several other occasions, someone was flat out
fudging their list - and if they're going to try and cheat to win,
wouldn't you rather know that from the start and NOT waste your time
gaming with them? I sure would.

I do understand there is a point to secrecy, particularly for
certain strategies in tournament play. That being said, in friendly
games, opponents could simply agree to show each other their list at the
end of the game. As for tournaments, the secrecy thing would be a total
bitch - you'd have to have officials go over each and every list with a
fine toothed comb. And short of having 'observers' watching every game,
how exactly would you prevent 'fudging' on wargear, etc if the other
player didn't know what was on the other's army list?

+++

Outsourced US$0.30/hr Chinese printshop labor FTW!


Playa

Overall, I'd have to thoroughly agree that this comes off more
like FAQ style 'bandaid' fixes, and (other than the rending fix, and a
few others) not very good ones at that.

Seriously, if this *** is the best that they can come up with
(which isn't a surprise since a fair bit of their writing/design talent
has bailed or been let go) and even vaguely matches the final product,
what veteran gamer is going to want to adopt 5th Ed?




--
"I'm already impoverished from buying wargames minis,
and I'm too knackered for riotous living..."

-- Moramarth

RGMW FAQ: http://www.rgmw.org

Or...

http://www.sheppard.demon.co.uk/rgmw_faq/rgmw_faq.htm
.