Re: Woohoo! I live in blissful ignorance.

On Jun 22, 2:02 am, Erik Setzer <erks-a-t-comcast-d-o-t-net> wrote:
On Wed, 20 Jun 2007 03:59:27 -0700, manickZe <manic...@xxxxxxxxx>
wrote:



On Jun 20, 6:48 pm, Erik Setzer <erks-a-t-comcast-d-o-t-net> wrote:
On Sat, 16 Jun 2007 23:50:15 -0000, manickZe <manic...@xxxxxxxxx>
wrote:

Leaving Amreica's most articulate president ever aside for the moment,
seriously man, where do you come up with this ***, the conspiracy
theories about the left (teacher's unions- I mean who knows more about
running schools and teaching kids than teachers?). You're just a
neocon-love-toy...ie. a Stupid voter.

Never mind the useless insults you decided to sling to try to make
your point... I witnessed some of the brightest students have to put
up with crap so more money could be spent failing the same students
over and over again. The best idea is always competition. In a
competitive environment people work harder.

People always get screwed harder in a competitive environment, only
the cream rise to the top whilst the rest get behind faster and
faster. I have a better idea, make sure people don't get left behind.
Because when you make something a race, somebody usually gets fucked
over. and when you get fucked over people, they don't give a ***
about anything anymore and don't rise above their situation, don't
contribute, fall to the wayside, don't vote, become apathethic,
marginalised and eventually lost.

In this case the best students were getting fucked over... and the
worst students weren't getting any better.

Being tested and their progress measured might make someone realize
that *they* are behind the problems in the system, not any lack of
funding.

Lack of funding = lack of teachers = overcrowded classrooms = bad
grades.

Bzzt, WRONG! I was in classes with 30 people, it meant more minds to
work together. Only a lazy teacher can't handle it. That's a myth
they put out because most teachers are lazy and more teachers = more
union dues = more money to pay off politicians = more union power.

30 teachers in a class room is overcrowding. Students thrive more in
smaller classrooms, fifteen to twenty is a good number. It is a well
known fact that smaller class sizes means that students are less going
to be prioritised as a number and more going to be valued as an
individual.

You are sucking on your own ph/fallacy here. You are calling teachers
lazy because they can't competently pass, let alone encourage to
thrive, 30 students, week in, week out. It is hard fucking work. I was
contemplating becoming a teacher for a long time until I had children.

More union power != more money to pay off politicians. Lobbyist for
employers contribute insanely more amounts of money to politicians
than unions do. More union power means more opportunities to
collectively bargain equals more rights and a valued paycheck for
teachers so they don't get used and abused which seems to be the norm
in many western countries.

I'm not even looking at this so much from a conservative/liberal
viewpoint. I think if you tell teachers that, like any other job,
you'll pay them based on actual performance, they will step up their
performance. It works in every other job. Tell me *why* it wouldn't
work with teachers, aside from teachers wanting to be lazy.

You're making blanket statements about teachers being lazy. This is a
typical conservative view. If a system doesn't work, it must mean the
people are lazy. Most teachers are caring individuals who want people
to learn, they have gone and given a *** gone through university or
college and actually hold ideals that they can better society by
passing on knowledge, it is a wholey honourable vocation.

No, they are not caring individuals. Too many of them just want the
money - and even more money - and couldn't give a damn if the students
learn. That's not "conservative", that's REALIST.

You know why people want money, it's because everything cost so much,
they need money for escalating house prices, privatised essential
utilities and services and the pay increases that don't match 1/10th
of all of those things. It's not just a teacher problem it is an
employee wide problem throughout our countries.

People pull out
their stupid political labels to claim if you don't agree it must be
because you have some extreme political leaning, never mind that I
actually experienced it and I've seen the various teachers around.

I've seen it too and you're assuming. There are fundamental ideals
held within political beliefs. I do not have an extreme political
view, I am not an extremist, I will take back my language and use it
more efficiently. it is you who holds the the extreme ideals. You are
facist/classist if you do not believe in treating everyone fairly. It
cultivates classes of society. This is not socialism and certainly not
"democracy", and believe you me socialism is not the bugbear America
has vaunted it to be for the past 50 years.

The best teachers in this town were overworked and underfunded because
they poured more money into failing schools that continued to fail.
How is that fair to the students? That "liberal" idea has only seen
our school system slide further and further into the toilet.

Ahuh.

Good job. Another few years, a few more billion, and we'll have 90%
illiteracy in high school. Sounds like a brilliant education plan,
much better than making the teachers work for their money, right?

You know how to make an employee work better, make a better, less
stressed more functional work environment. You don't put them to the
grindstone. The governing just threw more money at poor
administrators. I'm going to put this is the "mismanagement" bucket
and not schooling has failed because of unions.

Because God forbid a freaking Democrat worshipper ever admit they
*might* be wrong and a Republican idea on something might be on the
right track.

Ha. I am not a Democrat worshipper, I think the Democrats are
centreright politically anyway and the republicans are just plain
fundamentalist facist. The only problem at the moment is that they are
the lesser of two evils in a two horse race.

Hey, as long as we're political, name me a great Democrat president in
the last thirty years.

I can't name you any good presidents in the last 60 years since the
WWII finished the only one trying to fix his mistakes is Jimmy Carter.
You are the richest country in the world, you should have the best
education system in the world, yet half the population still believe
in the literal word of the bible.

I mean, you've got the guy who lied to his nation and embarassed it in front of the > world,
All your presidents have lied and embarrassed their nation, especially
the incumbent. I can't think to qualify who you could mean.

and the peanut farmer who let terrorists walk all over us to choose from.

? The reason why you have terrorists is because the west, primarily
america have created, given material support to creating states of
war and despair where it has now become an honour to become a martyr
within fundmanetalist poor islamic societies, where the only way to
honour your family and station is to kill the infidels who bring
despair through war, famine, disease and depression. It is not because
of one peanut farmer, it is because of imperialistic aggression and
control.

Shouldn't be too
hard to find someone that's so much better than a guy who might have
pissed off France because they're a bunch of whiney tossers who are
too frightened to protect their own citizens (or control their own
country).

France is a much better country than america, it is far more
democratic You just whine about France because it like to point out
America's failings.

Or, better, keep politics away from discussions on education.

How about, stop assuming things about people you are arguing with. The
problem with you americans is you only see things in black and white.
It's us or them, you're either with us or you support terrorism.

.

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