Re: Facist turd exposed...again [OT] was Re: (MGP) Battlefield Evolution - Previews and Releases

On 4 Mar, 19:29, Robert Singers <rsing...@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
Between saving the world and having a spot of tea Phil Bowles said

You know, I figured that Australia and South East Asia would knock
some of the idealist nonsense out of Phillip. But obviouslly not.

For my part, I was under the impression that mistaking world-weary
cynicism for realism was something people generally left behind with
their student years.

I'm not sure if that is a strawman or an attempt at a cheap shot. You're
not being realistic and I'm not mistaking anything.

It was an observation. You're attempting to make a case based on
cynicism rather than evidence and trying to palm it off as being
somehow realistic.

Politics is a job. It exists to perform a social function just like
any other. And people are drawn to it for the same reasons they enter
any other - for some ambition, for some as a money-spinner, but for
most as with people in most professional jobs that require specialist
training or in the case of politics campaigning, because the focus of
the job appeals to them, meshes with their values and opinions, or
because they feel it's the best way they can contribute their skills
to their community. Politicians aren't selected from a pool of people
who happen to be greedier, more selfish etc. than the majority,
they're normal people drawn from the same spectrum as scientists,
lawyers, doctors, teachers and all the rest with the same range of
motivations.

Where's your proof?

Remember the adage "extraordinary claims require extraordinary
evidence"? My position is simple: that there is no reason to regard
politicians, as people doing a job, as being any different from other
people in job situations. Nothing extraordinary about that. It's the
null hypothesis, as it were - it's the baseline against which an
alternative hypothesis is tested. It is the claim that there *is* a
difference that needs to be substantiated, the extraordinary claim
that requires extraordinary evidence.

And thus we return to the aphorism I mentioned in my reply to Al:
Cynicism is just a substitute for true critical thinking. The essence
of scepticism is the requirement that any position be supported by
evidence - the cynic's position is not free from this burden. My
evidence is as I've presented it above; people have a variety of
motivations for entering and performing their jobs. Most, in my
experience, are not motivated by selfishness or greed. Politicians are
people performing a job. Therefore politicians have a variety of
motivations for entering and performing their jobs, and most are not
motivated by selfishness or greed.

There. Your turn. The burden's on you to present your proof.

And to veer this dangerously close to the point I was originally
making on this subject, people hold differing opinions on politics for
the same reason people in these other professions hold differing
opinions on the best approach to doing their jobs; because they
genuinely believe theirs is a better way of fulfilling their job
description than the alternatives. Tarring all of them with the brush
of opportunism is as simple-minded as assuming all cops are bent
because some are; just as in any job you'll find those who'll abuse
their positions or succumb to corruption, and as in any job these
people are most likely to get ahead when the appropriate safeguards
aren't in place to weed them out, but they aren't representative of
the whole.

So why then do you tar all governments with existing for the same reason?
Is it somehow right when you do it but wrong when others do it?

How simple can I make this? A government exists to govern - that's a
tautology. Look up the definition of "govern". It's what defines it as
*being* a government. This is not a generalisation about the people
involved in government or their motivations, it is simply a statement
of a government's purpose. Is it "tarring all doctors with existing
for the same reason" to suggest that doctors exist to treat patients'
illnesses? Is it an unfair assessment because some doctors like Harold
Shipman abuse their positions to commit mass murder instead?

I think you're brighter than this, Singers. You're just being contrary
for the sake of being contrary, because for some reason you seem to
think it earns you intellectual capital to try and catch people in
pointless arguments, however trivial and even if you don't have a
point to prove. Frankly it's boring and I don't have an interest in
helping you stoke your ego - if you actually want to engage in
constructive debate I'll be happy to debate with you, but if your only
interest is in being adversarial, however obtuse you have to pretend
to be to keep up the charade, I'm not interested in playing that game.

Phil

.

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