Re: How Inaccurate is History of Ma Diao or Mahjong?

On Mar 21, 8:50 pm, al <a...@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
On Mar 13, 12:29 pm, al <a...@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:> On Mar 12, 6:12 pm, al <a...@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

On Jan 17, 10:10 pm, al <a...@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:> NAQ (Never-asked-Question):
How Inaccurate is History of Ma Diao or Mahjong?
[..]

Can't help but wonder what text was being translated...I mean did Feng
or pan call those "strings of Cash"? or did Lo interpret it using
Himly's terminology?

Lo's translation paper came much later than Himly's work. Where did
Lo's "string" come from? That is my question.

[..]

I have mentioned elsewhere in a post. The Chinese language was
developed from pictographs. Words are abstracts of pictures or
symbols. Symbol have meanings embedded in them;
[..]

So "ten-thousand" in Ma Diao or Mahjong does not necessarily mean
10,000' [in numerical value only].

The word is used figuratively in "ten-thousand" ways.> [..]
[..]

However, Rong, Pan and Feng had all missed the historical meaning of
Ma Diao, it seems to me, unless there were more to their manuals than
what was translated.
That ws not the case
But then it is obvious. They did not agree on the meaning of the
game's name. That is an indication that there was no central idea to
Ma Diao. [..]

Drop a leg is different than hang a leg. Not only that; the "leg" was
only an assumption; not a stated fact.
More than that even...
That means they did not have any written documentation to go by when
they wrote their instruction manuals which later translated by Lo.
Without written documents, how did Pan and Feng get their knowledge of
the game? Needless to say, they got it from the spoken words. Judging
by the numerous names of the game, mahjong, we know how inaccurate
spoken words could be.

Spoken words can be often heard wrong even nowadays.
[..]

In view of evidence cited, I can say the Late Ming edition of Chinese
card game Ma Diao and its interpretation deviated from, and is
inaccurate and incomplete with reference to, its original intended [purpose and application].

I still think so.
Yes.

In plain language, the game lost its meaning before Late Ming period.
Again, yes.

[intended] version. Ma Diao along with its translation became a game of
meaningless "strings" of Cash and without "purpose" or "application".
[..]

Unfortunately, the damage to Ma Diao is carried onto mahjong.

The history of Ma Diao and Mahjong is not accurate; [..]

Yet, where are the mahjong scholars and historians?

++++++++++++++

Cheers again....al
++++++++++++++++++++
How inaccurate is mahjong history? That is still a good question.
There are inaccuracies in other card games too. I quote. The Playing-
Card article, Brief History of Playing Cards.

"How all these variations on the basic idea came about is not fully
understood. One plausible theory is that some of them arose from
midunderstandings due to language differences, which resulted in
something like visual puns."

Unexplained variations of basic idea in European card games from
misunderstanding of languages. Speaking Chinese in dialects north and
south might as well be two "different languages". Possible
misunderstanding? That's for sure.

Inaccuracies in mahjong history? You be the judge.
.