Re: Chicago Conference On Truth vs. Terror


T Mark Hall <tmark@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
Once again, you miss the important point. The question is not whether
the person's Newsgroup reading program acts in a particular way, but
whether, in a Newsgroup dedicated to the discussion of Go, continual
postings about political activities are desirable or necessary. There
are many places that cater to politics and to conspiracy theories. If
any of the users of this group wanted, they can find them easily. But,
to have on of the few places available for the free discussion of Go
continually polluted by politics (and the occasional ravings of "Sam
Sloan"), where such postings have absolutely no connection with Go,
even by the most tenuous semantic argument, is annoying.


A lot of things could be said, however I will do better to keep
remarks brief. The atmosphere of this newsgroup could be said
as no different from a typical Go Club. At least in Go Clubs we do
find people engaging in coversations which seem to wander far
afield from Go. At first I thought it a curiosity but later I came to
recognize that a "breathing space" enabled by off-topic discussions
was not much different from liberties that players seek for the stones.
A discussion of 9/11 has proceeded in other newsgroups, however
we are not obtaining expected responses, concerning advancement
and defense of truth above all other considerations. At the juncture
where a conscious decision occurs to beget children into this world
we wonder whether the "future parents-to-be" are uncautious about
the standards for truth being advocated and enforced. Nobody asks
for a perfect world, however the society which does not subscribe
to truth above power will not long last. The children born into that
society will pay the consequences for parental inattention, or so we
speculate. Relegating essential information into other categories
has subverted the notion of the public square where all ideas might
receive a broadcast, even should that smack of Hyde Park rantings.
So it's not enough that people can find other topics easily: a problem
we perceive consists of apathy and lassitude at requiring our public
officials to investigate aggressively, to demand higher standards of
truth. Original evidence presented _in_camera_ to NATO countries,
about the supposed linkage between 9/11 and Al Qaeda, was not
sufficient to persuade Norway. Later, Germany was also lukewarm.
This was the evidence that Condoleezza Rice had promised would
eventually be made public to the American people and the world.
It should be disquieting to Britishers that Tony Blair was so eager
to be duped by George W. Bush, and share in history's assessment
of their war criminality. The typical reaction, by way of denial, is to
pretend it didn't exist, to create six or more degrees of separation,
to abstract oneself from the course of history in progress, or to be
numbed by a world deemed too chaotic to understand or control.
To this day the USA's FBI declares that "there is no hard evidence"
linking 9/11 to Al Qaeda, and -they- have reviewed the _in_camera_
presentation which had earlier not convinced Norway and Germany.
I mean, it was within a few hours of the 9/11 attack, on the same day,
that lying George Tenet told George W. Bush that "Al Qaeda did it."
This amounted to a snap-judgment of convenience: the motive and
opportunity were there, it had been anticipated, but instead nobody
was considering that this type of event also led to the perfect crime
which would be readily blamed upon "usual suspects" who, in this
case, were out of the loop. So, the thesis of a Reichstag Operation.

Second, a point ought to be emphasized that genuine conversation
consists of people sharing ideas, even quite possibly changing their
minds in the course of an exchange. This quality is contrasted with
the bombastic nature of some contributors here who just wish to be
spouting opinions without having to listen to the other guy: thus they
advocate killfiles. There are indeed many types of "being" involved,
as how people perceive their world, themselves, and their role(s) in
that world. A philosophy of explanation about differing standards for
conduct will quite likely explore such varieties of "being" which can
assist comprehension of the constellation of features in a personality.
Nevertheless there will always remain certain types forever incurious
about the psychology adventure, encapsulated within their geekdom.
It's true that the focus is upon the game, and not upon ourselves. Yet
neither is critical focus upon an event of history a focus on ourselves.
I think what may cause disinterest in the 9/11 investigation, with its
subsequent lunging and lurching about by the USA overseas, is the
observation that 9/11 does not accomodate our sense of self-centered
narcissism which animates & motivates a good number of people here.
Quite frankly, "if it's not about ourselves, then we're not interested."

Sam Sloan is among the narcissistic, though in a special way not
analogous to other varieties who profess pride and accomplishment
in a deployment of killfiles. Yet Sam's activity is not much different
from T. Mark Hall's repeated announcements of commercial products.
Perhaps T. Mark Hall just feels strongly that others should be just as
narcissistic as he, so that his own narcissism is given more assurance.
That he is not alone in egregious abuse of noncommercial newsgroups?
All too tempting, and even comforting or seductive, is the tendency to
want to corral the nature of a newsgroup and dictate to others how
THEY -ought- to behave. The "moderator policies" here, that I would
enforce (if elected), should rather be setting behavior by example only.



I know many in the Go community who have ceased to use this forum
simply because of such postings and it is a perfect example of
Gresham's Law, that bad money drives out good. Let Mr Boscole post
his news articles on a politics/conspiracy theory Newsgroup, but leave
this one for Go, please.


It's never difficult to scan a forum, which is rapidly done without
use of killfiles. I don't read all articles in rec.games.go and those
I do read are quite often just scanned. There are many opinions
about what is "good money" and "bad money." One may as well
state that "good money" can drive out the bad: it's all a matter of
whether the glass is half-empty or half-full. Again, differences in
one's "being" or "presentation." If one is inclined to Statism, as
many Britishers are, then one will agree to freedom-compromising
precepts which inhibit creative alternatives and discovery of truth.
They worship to the Gods of Convenience. If one is inclined to
the Inalienable Rights of Individuals, then one will declare even at
peril to one's very life that a Just Government occurs only by the
Consent of the Governed. If you want to improve circumstances
for yourself and your countrymen you will youself lead by example.
You won't be running to Government Paternalism to have Daddy
or Big Brother make the bad gremlins go away. Americans retain
a Second Amendment because we recognize that citizen militia
are enabled to supplement inadequacies in police response.
You can continue running circles on your merry-go-round with
quibbling and bickering back and forth, but until you understand
that the essential disagreements are sourced from the varieties
of "being" in the human condition you will never comprehend it.



Frank de Groot <frank@xxxxxxxxxx> writes
The only reason I see to violently oppose the truth getting disseminated
about genocide is that those who oppose such truth to be disseminated
to be sympathisers of such genocide. It's not just that you appear to be
supportive of the atrocities mentioned in jb's postings, you actively seek
to censor knowledge of them. You have proven to be nothing but a
parasite and a leech - please remove yourself from this newsgroup.

"T Mark Hall" <tmark@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
I will continue posting here items relevant to Go and no-one like you
or Mr Boscole will "remove" me from this Newsgroup. I will continue
to request, which is all that it is, the people are polite enough to
respect the intentions of the Newsgroup and of the greater majority of
the people who read and post here. The occasional item of off-topic
interest has appeared here and I, and I suppose like most others, have
skipped over it with a sigh and the silent wish that the poster will be
good enough to learn good manners, something that you are sadly lacking.
If you wish, create a rec.games.go.conspiracytheory Newsgroup where you
and Mr Boscole can post to your hearts content, as long as you remove it
completely from this group. I make no demands about your continued
presence or absence or that of Mr Boscole. I can curse and swear here,
privately, but to bring that out into the public arena only reveals to
all your real character.


I don't share Frank's extremism, however he has not called for
your removal. He simply asks you to consider your own self-removal.
Yet this is a programming exercise in police-work. It's a regular
procedure in science to absent oneself from the operation so that
the enabling features are contributed by components other than self.
Once I understand that I have no vested interest in the outcome of a
9/11 investigation then I am better prepared to consider possibilities.
I do not desire control of the world's oil resources, nor am I much
interested in having a bloated military-industrial-complex. I do not
appreciate having so much canned media broadcasted at me from
television sets 24/7. I care neither for the existence of Israel, nor
for Islam, nor for any "national security" which eliminates the voter,
nor for a "strong" presidency, nor for certain political power parties.
It would be nice if people based their life actions upon truth, but the
"big lie" has been told so often that they believe it: that they cannot
ever find the truth and that the truth will forever remain an unknown.
This was the same "big lie" that Sadducces were saying to Gentiles.
They got very angry at Jesus for contradicting such presumptions.

The "good manners" of a poster consists of willingness to host
a discussion aimed at mutual inquiry into matters of truth. Certainly,
it is not "good manners" to call for anyone's removal. As everyone
know already, I consider it not "good manners" to boast or gloat over
killfiles. Interaction is the basis for the I-Ching's wisdom. Once it
is accepted that interaction is to be avoided then the community has
simply retreated into its lonely black holes of narcissism. Beyond the
study of Go itself is, for civilized people, the study of human beings.
Players are enriched when beholding the "being" of another, even
direct apprehension that bypasses interpretive modes of psychology.
I cannot overemphasize that Go is yet another tool for enriching the
quality of human existence. If we have learning nothing from Go in
terms of standards for honesty in conduct of our daily state-of-affairs
then we are deriving no benefit by having attained strong play at Go.
If, in passing a torch to the next generation, we have not upheld our
committment to truth, then we have failed them, and failed our own.
Sportsmanship is not destroying opponents, but helping them to stand.



"Robert Blair" <nobody@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
It is best to ignore JB, he is a troll. I have ignored Frank
because I thought he was ill but it seems he likes to troll also.


Do what you will, however I would seek to discourage anyone
from the thought-pattern that there is a "best" method for process.
We usually have several options: our situation typically embraces
unknowns. Robert Blair presumes that nothing is unknown to him.
If you find Robert Blairs condition of "being" admirable, then join up.
Posters may feel impelled by a sense of "duty" to say what they say.
Ultimately there will be a day when everything to be said has been said.
Many people believe that day had already passed a long time ago.




- regards
- jb

-------------------------------------------------------------
Homeland Security Enters the Classroom
http://www.nationalvanguard.org/story.php?id=9496
-------------------------------------------------------------

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