Re: What do various \rulesets say about the score of the seki?

Dear jb,

On Fri, 2005-07-29 at 17:21 +0000, - wrote:

> Chris Dams <C.Dams@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> > Black disagreed that his stones in the lower right were dead.

> Pass stones would be insufficient. In the example game
> you had provided (readers need to backtrack to find this) the
> player "O" needs to expend points to illustrate a lesson to "#".
> This is unfair to "O" and reduces the score of "O" significantly.

Well, with pass stones one has to be a bit careful, of course. By
further demanding that the number of stones played during dispute
resolution is even and being careful that the number of dame is even
when you pass such problems do not occur.

> Resumed play then ends with "pass ... pass" (or "pass ...
> pass ... pass") as before except that the status of stones is
> determined and the situation reverts to the -original- "Marker" point
> of the initial game stop.

That is also a possible way automizing the game end. I do not have a
strong preference for one or another way to handle this. If this was to
be chosen one gets something like J2003 with determination whether
something is possible by play-out instead of by perfect play, removal of
capturable-2/3 rules and removal of the "no points in a seki"-rule.
Capturable-1 is necessary to handle the rather frequent case of snap-
back. Also one would want to have only one hypothetical sequence per
string, so alive would mean a stone somewhere in local-1 at the end of a
hypothical sequence.

> If there has been multiple changes in status, or something that
> approaches superko repetition, the server software can disallow
> the repetition move and display an explanatory message on the
> player's terminal in their native language with appropriate font.

I think the most logical way to handle this in view of J2003 is that if
during all of repeating part of the hypothetical sequence a stone is
present in local-1 of the final-string, the final-string is alive.
Otherwise it is dead.

> Having a "Marker" point emplaced in the game record allows
> unlimited maneuvers for forcing all stone captures so as the
> argumentative player who was both ignorant and wrong can
> endure the maximum squirming and cringing before cavitating.
> That way the player in "teacher" role is not penalized for having
> to supply lesson stones that resolve an "ambiguous" position.

The proposal of having a play-out sequence for each final-string has of
course the problem that if a player acting in bad faith could make the
scoring procedure take a very long time. I do not think this is a very
serious disadvantage because I do not think it is very likely that this
is going to happen much. It is difficult to imagine what kind of fun
somebody would get out of disputing the status of every string on the
board.

> "Michael Alford" <malf@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> > Play on IGS, escaping is not possible, read the help file stored.
>
>
> Escaping is possible, however the escaper forfeits the game.

Although I play on IGS, I think the lack of a proper game end procedure
is a serious disadvantage. The escaper-prevention rules made me loose a
game on IGS a few times because my internet connection died, but I think
this is only a small disadvantage. After all, it's a game.

Best wishes,
Chris

.

Relevant Pages

  • Re: rule clarification: dead stone removal
    ... Under area scoring rules, the game enters the agreement phase after two ... The players don't have to decide what is dead or ... If they agree about all these stones, ...
    (rec.games.go)
  • Re: Rules FAQ
    ... > The game is played on a grid board. ... > intersections, ... Two players compete. ... > The first player uses black stones, ...
    (rec.games.go)
  • YAAP: Extinctionist - long!: Zan-Wiz-Fem-Orc-Cha / nostalgia.suroot.com
    ... An extinctionist game with Demo, ... The rest was the continous act of summoning and killing monsters, ... Level 10: dragons ... 65 uncursed fluorite stones ...
    (rec.games.roguelike.nethack)
  • Rules FAQ
    ... tournament players and organizers chapter 6. ... The game is played on a grid board. ... intersections, ... The first player uses black stones, ...
    (rec.games.go)
  • Rules FAQ
    ... tournament players and organizers chapter 6. ... The game is played on a grid board. ... intersections, ... The first player uses black stones, ...
    (rec.games.go)