Re: What do various \rulesets say about the score of the seki?

Dear Thaddeus,

> >It's worse, err, more interesting than that! ;-) By Japanese '89 rules
> >Black has no territory at all!!!!! Each of his live groups shares a
> >neutral point with some live White group, and is therefore **in seki**.
> >White wins big. (OC, Black may request a resumption....)
> >
> Ok. Now you have totally What do you mean by "each of his live
> groups"? Can you be specific? Other then the groups in the upper
> right?
>
> There are only four Black groups. S18 (if you can call that a group )
> S15, P7 and G3. P7 and G3 are clearly alive. S15, S18 are seki.
>

Here is the board after the players have passed and started scoring.

---------------------------------------
| . . . . . O X X X X . . . . . . X O . |
| . O O O . O O O O X . X . . X . X O X |
| O O X X O O X O O X O X . . X X O O O |
| X X X , X X X O X , X O X X . X O ? ? |
| X O X . X . . X X X X O O X X X O X X |
| O O O X . . . . . X O O O O O O O X . |
| . . O X . X X X . X X O O X O O X X X |
| . . O O X O O . O X X O X X O X O X O |
| . . . O X . . . O X . X X X X X O X O |
| . . O O X O . O . X X X O ? X O O O O |
| . . O X X . O . X O X O O ? X O . . . |
| . . . O X X X X X O X X O X X O . . . |
| . . O O X O O ? O O O O O O O X O O . |
| . . O X X O . O O . . . . O ? X O . . |
| O O O X ? O O O . . O . O X X X O . . |
| O X X X X O X X O , O O X X . X O . . |
| X . . . X X X X X O O X X . X X O . . |
| . X . . . . . X O O O X . X X O O . . |
| . . . . . . X O O ? X X X O O O . . . |
---------------------------------------

I have marked the neutral points with ?s. Under Japanese '89 rules,
unless they are filled (which the players can agree to do informally,
without resuming play), the groups next to them are **in seki**, which
means that they have no territory, nor are dead stones which they
surround removed.

Since Black has captured 4 White stones, if the board is scored as is,
White wins by 41.5 points. If the dame next to Black's groups are
filled, except for the one in the top right, and White takes the single
Black stone there, Black wins by 16.5 points. (Where did a White win by
4.5 come from???)

IMHO, Japanese '89 rules are inappropriate for amateurs.

Best,

Bill
.

Relevant Pages

  • Re: rule clarification: dead stone removal
    ... I am sure that after some effort to understand the territory scoring ... count the stones as well as the intersections that they surround (and ... If you use Japanese rules, you will have to actually prove ...
    (rec.games.go)
  • Flaws of the World Amateur Go Championship Rules (06)
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    (rec.games.go)
  • Re: When to end
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  • Re: Attn: Frank de Groot -- Software Development Lessons LEARNED FROM GO
    ... territory are the empty intersections where both ... What if the players do not ... the concept of the game. ... Capture of stones does not imply fight. ...
    (rec.games.go)
  • Re: rule clarification: dead stone removal
    ... Since in practice, the Japanese rules have the same agreement phase, there really is no difference. ... The fact that territory scoring seems to defy intelligible formal definition doesn't mean anything for the beginners you want to protect. ... The players don't have to decide what is dead or alive. ... They simply indicate their opponents stones which they think they can capture if the game continues. ...
    (rec.games.go)