Re: Who did not bother to switch to 4E, and why?

Patrick Baldwin wrote:

"Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)" <seawasp@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

Patrick Baldwin wrote:

Justin <nospam@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

Patrick Baldwin wrote on [Thu, 23 Oct 2008 13:57:47 +0000 (UTC)]:

David Klassen <klassen@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:

Patrick Baldwin wrote:

proven harmful to you. Nothing I'm aware of (and if
there's a study that says otherwise, I'd like to see
it) proves that me smoking as I walk down the street
you live on is harmful to you. You just find it

It is proven that NO amount of smoke is healthy to breath.

I'll certainly believe it's not *healthy*, but
actually harmful, more so than the exhaust fumes
you breathe every day, all day, in a city?

Yes, just because there are exhaust fumes that makes it OK to pump even
more toxins into the air. It doesn't matter if exhaust fumes are better
or worse for you, it's irrelevant to the conversation on tobacco smoke.

It's completely relevant. In both cases, poisonous fumes
are being dumped into the air.

This fact seems to just bounce off people's brains.


In one case (cars) it's an adjunct of what has become a very necessary part of our civilization. Getting rid of it isn't a matter of just saying "I'll quit", and that's that. Even if you eliminated personal automobiles -- something which for the USA would either destroy the remaining economy, or require literally trillions of dollars in restructuriing of the country -- you'd still have nearly the same atmospheric costs involved in energy production of one sort or another. You will ALSO note that even those sources have been, and ARE, required to reduce their emissions -- more and more every few years.


New ones, certainly. However, old cars in many states
are exempt from the same sort of emission controls.

Which is funny, as they tend to be the worst offenders.


There are in fact some cars whose emissions are sometimes cleaner than the air around them.


And many, many that are much less so.


In the other case (tobacco), it's an adjunct of a personal habit which can be quit by the indulger without any actual direct consequences other than the personal (and temporary) difficulties of weaning from the addiction.


The two are disjoint and non-comparable,


I clearly disagree. Both are sources of toxic gases.

Cars make a lot more than tobacco does, since there's
so very many cars.


and in the one case have legal requirements already in place reducing their emissions. This fact seems to bounce off your brain.


Not at all. I just disagree with your first point, and
you're the first one to explicitly mention the second.


The equivalent legislation would have required smokers to reduce the amount of smoke they put into the air by well over 90%.


Given the difference in amount of smokers now, I'm curious
if that has happend yet.


Also, I'm curious: what would a "neutral party" be for the secondhand smoke research, since you said you want to see such studies?


Good question. I haven't found one, which I find rather
frustrating. What I want is a study that isn't funded
by anyone with a monetary stake in the outcome. Which
is tough, as most of the ones I've found are funded by
tobacco companies, or by anti-smoking groups.

~P.

Which would be the two groups most interested in such studies... I wouldn't trust a study done by the tobacco industry that said water was wet.

--
Tetsubo
--------------------------------------
"The apparent lesson of the Inquisition is that insistence on uniformity of belief is fatal to intellectual, moral and spiritual health."
-The Uses Of The Past-, Herbert J. Muller

BLUP
.

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