Re: McCain Camp Disses D&D

Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy wrote:
LL <Lorenz.Lang@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in
news:gabm0a$l58$1@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx:


Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy wrote:

Lorenz.Lang@xxxxxx wrote in
news:78caa6fa-f6c5-4906-bcc2-2b881f70e6fc@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
ps. com:



On 10 Sep., 22:16, Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy
<tausti...@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:


Lorenz.L...@xxxxxx wrote
innews:1423f6e4-5278-427f-8930-15254447aafc@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
r oups. com:





On 10 Sep., 19:54, Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy
<tausti...@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:


Lorenz.L...@xxxxxx wrote
innews:1abc6c80-7854-432a-9eb0-227debc2b81d@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
egr oups. com:

On 9 Sep., 19:03, Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy
<tausti...@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:


David Klassen <klas...@xxxxxxxxx> wrote
innews:b7d80a27-abd6-4694-8db0-10e24eb920e2@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
leg rou ps.co m:

On Sep 8, 7:17 pm, Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy
<tausti...@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:

Nobody said otherwise. The claim was that labor alone
produces new wealth, and that *only* labor *alone* can
produce new wealth. It

No. My claim was that labor *creates* new wealth.

Your claim was that labor *alone* creates new wealth.
You've since agreed that you were full of shit, and
backpedaled.

Now lie some more, dumbass. You know you will.

--
Terry Austin

"There's no law west of the internet."
- Nick Stump

Jesus forgives sinners, not criminals.

Haven't read the whole thread, but I think labor alone
creates new wealth.

Feel free to describe how. Others have tried, and failed.

I try:
A piece of wood I posess

Then you are not using labor alone. You are using labor, plus
capital.

Capital which I didn't own.


Indeed. That's the point. The original claim what that capital shouldn't give the one who owns it any claim on the profits of
the labor. Which is stupid, to the point of being retarded.

I agree. There's a market price for capital,
for example interest or dividends.
If you want capital, you have to pay the price.


And the only reason you wouldn't want capital is because you're Doing It Wrong.

I'm doing "It" wrong? I'm having difficulties parsing the
above sentence. There's some context missing?

It has been sort of a catalysator.
It helps in the creation process without being consumed.


Actually, in your scenario, it was consumed. Try to pay
attention to what *you're* saying, at least.

No? I bought stuff with it (wood, knife) and if you lookat my
balance sheet the capital is still there... :-)

I can get the capital back, if I sell the used knife and the
carved wood.


The carved wood is consumed.

Only if I put it in the fireplace instead of selling it with a profit.

The increased value of the carved wood + the decreased value of
the used knife should be greater than raw wood + new knife to
make any profit.
Capital is not consumed, it's like a catalysator,
in a "good" business at least. And we're taking about
creation of wealth...


In any event, you created no new wealth without capital, which is what I said.

....on the level of observation you're unwilling to leave.

Unless I'm one of the infamous money-burners...
The creation of wealth is /done/ by the labor.


You've yet to offer an example of wealth being created by labor
*alone*.

A boy carries my suitcase and I give him a Dollar.
He increased his wealth by one Dollar without capital.

Money or capital can't /do/ anything on itself.


And labor doesn't either, without some form of capital.


You lose.

How about: I know you are, but what am I? :-)


Heh.


The whole story depends on the viewpoint:
You say the wood and carving knife is my capital,
which is okay with the microeconomic way of
defining "production". But where does the capital
come from, macroeconomically speaking? From other
peoples work: somebody cut the tree and made "my"
piece of wood, somebody made the knife etc.
Let's focus our view deeper into the microeconomic production
process: we have used the capital to make production
/possible/. When the setup is okay, production happens by work
/alone/


Except, as you note, production is impossible without capital.

....on the level of observation you're unwilling to leave.

In the eyes of microeconomy, because it makes sense to look at
it this way sometimes. At other times you take a look from
nearer or farer, so to speak, and see it differently.
Ahem, maybe *you* don't, but others do. :-)


And if you squint your eyes *just* right, you can see chocolate covered faries flying out of my butt, too.

That's...interesting...for a shrink.

Viewed with a bigger picture in mind, capital is in a sense
wealth stored from past labor.


"In a sense." "If you see it differently." Yeah. In other words, I'm right, and you're trying to weasel around it by redefining words. Which is to say, I'm right.

No weaseling. On one level of observation capital plays a part
in production. It's not the only valid level of observation.

Or with a smaller picture in mind it's not needed.
The worker in a factory creates new wealth without capital.


If you ignore the factory, which is to say, capital. Which makes you look retarded.

That's just ... like ... your opinion ... or something.

Therefore he doesn't get all the created wealth, part of it
goes to the owner of the factory (the bigger part usually).


Oh, you mean he creates new wealth without _his own_ capital, which is completely the opposite of what you actually *said*.

All the faeries in the air are confusing me.

You're now arguing with *yourself*.

It's not *my* fault that you don't have good arguments. ;-P


I'mt not *my* fault you're trying to defend an obviously retarded position, and failing. I reserve good arguments for someone who actually disagrees with me.

Sure. Have a nice day, Terry.
While the boy with the dollar spends his wealth for an icecream.
:-)

LL
.

Relevant Pages

  • Re: McCain Camp Disses D&D
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  • Re: McCain Camp Disses D&D
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