Re: |[4E] Customizing monsters
- From: tussock <scrub@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: 2 May 2008 02:31:59 +1200
DougL wrote:
tussock wrote:
Malachias Invictus wrote:
Alcore wrote:
Yes, he was sub-optimal compared to the Fire Giant Warriors he was
facing.
If he was, you were not using the rules right. Giant Wizards are
broken, not because they are too weak, but because they are
ridiculously powerful for their CR.
That's situation dependant. Giant Wizards are tough by CR for PCs
because they're Wizards with extra HP (which is the Wizard's great
vulnerability when facing PCs), but that may not be all that against a
bunch of levelled Fire Giants.
It still gets the same BAB it would have as a pure fighter of the same
CR. It gets almost as many feats. It gets elite stats. It gets gear. It
gets better saves.
Gee, never seen that before; pure Fighter inferior to a Wizard build
around CR 10+. It's almost like Fighters are crap, or something.
In what way is it WEAKER than a Giant Fighter of the same CR even if
fighting levelled Fire Giants?
It's not supposed to be weaker, that's the point.
If it had had the good sense to take CLERIC it would have had a HIGHER
BAB than the fighter of the same level. Even MORE extra HP than a
fighter of the same level. And could cast its spells in armor.
What's that you say? A Cleric more powerful than a Fighter too?
Plus, needs some buffs up to gain manouvrability, and might have
to defend PCs a bit, and so on.
How does it need this more than a fighter filling the same role?
Why is your Fighter trying to be a Wizard?
And IF I accept the silly premise that it "needs" to do these things how
is it worse than a giant fighter who CAN'T do the same things at all?
So, what, you're building it as a Fighter, only using Wizard levels?
Here's a suggestion, if that's not working for you, stop doing it. If you
want to use Wizard levels, play it as a Wizard, it will have the
appropriate CR as a result.
Optimal is not a requirement of things in my game. And with the
players help, he *did* win.
He should not have needed their help, by the rules as written, unless
he was very low level.
Meh, dude never said it was a fair fight. Nine levels of Wizard
won't do that much against a bunch of Fire Giants, regardless of HP.
+4 to CR, but +4 to BAB, +3 Feats, +2 stat increases, +Elite stats,
+9x(2.5+Cmod) HP, +3 to Fort and Reflex but +6 to Will, +gear.
Not near as good as pretty much everything that advances by HD.
This makes 4 levels of fighter look feeble in EVERY way.
Funny that.
Note that I haven't mentioned spell-casting. That's not an oversight.
Spell- casting ISN'T NEEDED to make this character FAR FAR more
powerful than the CR indicates.
Eh? "FAR FAR" more powerful than any other CR 12 grunt? Really? Have
you checked the Monster Manual? You know the real issue with the
comparison here is the crappyness of the Fighter levels, right?
In what way is +4 to CR an accurate representation of the value of 9
levels of COMMONER to a giant, much less 9 levels of a real PC class?
You're not supposed to add Com levels to Giants, dude. Particularly
not as a combat encounter, because of how crap they are and stuff. Try
Giant HD for that sort of thing.
--
tussock
I'm like a box of chocolates; you never know what you're gunna get.
.
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