Re: Torture - A lawful good act?

In article
<dff4afc4-d009-4783-b6aa-1d9101ea3b5f@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>,
veritas <khogantwo@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:

Allen, I'm not rationalizing a narrow, xenophobic world view. When a
group of people attack your country, xenophobia is the last thing you
think about. Defending our livestyle, economy, country, and allies is
not called xenophobia, it is called self-defense. HOW we defend
ourselves against terrorists who may or may not stike anywhere or any
time they chose is what we have to decide HOW we are going to react.
It is better to give than to receive. The baptist upbring in me is
still there even if I am by logic and critical thinking, an agnostic.
But I do demonstrate critical thinking, you simply disagree with my
conclusion. I looked at all the different strategies I knew of,
talked with people. My conclusion is them knowing that total
destruction coming was the main defense.

You choose not to understand them. That's your weakness. These are
desert people. There is nothing you can throw at them short of complete
eradication that they haven't already endured.

What you ensure is that they weather the sandstorm and come back at you.
Every move you make is a recruitment poster for young people to become
suicide bombs.

You think so? Live a little longer, and then tell me what you think.
If human nature doesn't make you cynical, nothing on this Earth will.
You remember one thing, if you take nothing else away from this whole
forum always remember this rule: Every human being will ALWAYS do
what is in their best interest in every situation in their life. I
promise you that.  

Circular definition. There is no action that you cannot rationalize as
self interest, even ones that look altruistic.

The truth of the matter is that there are many strategies for living.
Yes, if resources are scarce, people get ugly. However, they can be
pretty nice too once they have enough to get by.

There are also people who pay forward far more than they ever took from
society. That you cannot see this is an inherent problem with the way
you take in information.

As my father was a Deacon in the Baptist Church, you aren't telling me
anything new. I've seen behind the curtain after the sheep have
left. It's not pretty. All I was pointing out was that they deeply
believed that God would look out for them, but they "kept their powder
dry", in otherwords they still kept prepared for the worst.

Being prepared for the worst and expecting the worst are two different
things. Expectations influence results.

"I have but one lamp by which my feet are guided, and that is the lamp
of experience. I know of no way of judging of the future but by the
past." And judging by the past I see no way to handle those people
except to damage them to a point that any suggestion by any of them to
hurt us again is rejected by the rest. If you listen to the people
who hope against hope that if we just go away, they will leave us
alone, you will be very disappointed. I look at fresh perspectives,
but here, an old perspective seems the only answer. I am sorry that
is so, but it is.

Let me offer you a little perspective. There is a classic psychology
experiment in which they put glasses on young kittens just learning to
navigate. Some kittens got glasses with vertical bars in the viewing
field and some got horizontal. After the glasses were removed, the ones
with vertical bars bumped into chair legs. The ones with horizontal had
trouble negotiating stairs.

Experience isn't the only teacher. Your expectations bias that
experience.

Another thing. Age will never drive me into the entreched point of view
that you have. The world will not force me into a defensive position
because that is a losing position.

The right strategy for behaving in the world depends on conditions. If
you only have one strategy, the world will kick your *** in the long
run. Understanding the world and formulating a variety of strategies
for dealing with what you find in the world is the correct approach.

You are damned because you see only one thing and as a result only one
response.

Evolution teaches this lesson. You've stopped evolving. Read a little
Sun Tzu's The Art of War. Now imagine that the world is applying those
strategies to you, which of course, it is.

Cold cocking the world isn't the only answer, and you get no sympathy
for the results when it was the wrong one.

- Allen
.

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