Re: Torture - A lawful good act?

On Dec 16, 8:48 pm, David Klassen <klas...@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
On Dec 16, 6:11 pm, veritas <khogan...@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:



hang Saddam. We should have used him as a threat to put him back in
power if things didn't settle down. No one would have wanted that,
but what is done is done.

We never should have taken him out. Or perhaps, never put him in...?

You do not see the problem of deciding who is a "radical" and who is
not until they try to blow something up? Such as the sucide bomb

Innocent until proven guilty---period.

Animals do not kill there own kind. The only time they even fight is
mating season, and fatalities are rare. Yes, Lions, and other
predators kill the young when they take over a pride. But do you see
them line up in rows and run at each other and fight to the death as

Ahh... yeah... You *just* *agreed* to such an example!

civilization. It is human nature and the reason we are at the top of
the pyramid. We kill anything that steps in our way.

And yet, somehow, you state below that you have to *train* folks
to kill. So which is it? Are we all killers? Hint: I've never
killed anyone...

they just keep piling up. Adrinaline will start pumping out and you
may start to shake because you are still frozen. What training the

So much for being born ruthless killers.

I am not confusing the power to kill with strength. There are many
kinds of strength. But when you get smacked in the face, if you don't
do something massive, your troubles are just beginning. Believe that

Pop quiz: who smacked us? Follow up: why the hell didn't we
finish *that* job?!

Oh, and, no, you don't *have* to retaliate, whether equal, or on the
genocidal scale you propose. Try reading the teachings of Jesus
your beloved W claims to espouse and see if you can find ANY
justification for W's actions in there.

And if you disagreed with my statement, than you just prefer to live
in an unreal world and will be continually dissappointed by the
world.

Or I hope/work to live in a better one than you can imagine.

Do I justify a million Iraqis for 3,000 people killed in the towers?
No, I can't. It should be more. That isn't enough, and we aren't

Joy... :p

done yet. You may want to terror attack us, but you better be ready
for what's to come. That's the way it has to be. I don't know what

Pop quiz two: how many Iraqis terror-attacked up? That is, *before*
we invaded their country. ANYTHING they do to our soldiers now can
be easily classified as their self-defense---at least by your logic.

life, and be around full bloods, half bloods, etc, all my life, so
don't lecture me on if Sherman was right or not. The fact is, that is
what they did, and were not a bit sorry for it.

That they are not sorry is a sad maker of their lack of morality.

I should have made myself clear on the Quran part. My friends in
Canada who are Muslim say that the radicals are wanting to impose a
frighteningly strict code on everyone as the Taliban did. They are no

As opposed to Dobsen and Phelps and George W?!

faith, that is just wrong. Their treatment of women is terrible,
their whole lifesyle will never fly in the West. And 2% of the

You sadly forget the fact that their treatment of women is
pretty much how our country treated women. And how some
folks would have us do so by invoking their pseudo-Christian
theocratic rule over us all.

is that easy, then you are the stupid one. Sometimes the choices are
painful, and you take the best of terrible choices because that is all
that you got.

Yeah, but it wasn't. The real choice was clear to anyone NOT
blinded by neo-con imperialist designs---oust the Taliban then
Marshall plan Afghanistan.

I did not reply on having to train people to kill people. What the
Army found was that a shocking 40% of their troops did not fire their
weapons in a battle. The reason is not being able or willing to kill,
it is survival. If you have ever been shot at, it is a natural thing
to seek shelter and not stick your head up as people are shooting at
you. Survival is a very powerful uge, and when bullets are flying all
around you, you have a tendency not to stick you head up to fire back,
if you are not trained. It reminds me of a story of the Korean
"Frozen Chosin" battle that the U.S. Marines had to fight their way
out under enormous odds. A corporal and a buddie had ran down a hill
to get more ammo. They were not able to go back up as the firing was
so intense they hid behind a mud hut. A Captain walked up to them and
with bullets pinging and zzzing past him said, "Who the hell are you
with and what are you doing?" They told him they were pinned down, of
course feeling a little stupid as the Captain certainly wasn't "pinned
down". He told them to get their asses up the hill with the ammo.
They started up and the fire was so heavy they knew they would never
make it. They went back to the hut. After a while the Captain came
back over, the bullets still pinging all around him and he pulled his .
45, cocked it, pointed it at them and said, "Either you go up the hill
and maybe die, or I will shoot both of you." They took off and to the
corporal's surprise both reached the top of the hill alive. That is
what I mean by freeze. The uge for survival is great, and has to be
overcome to do your job. Hence, the training instituted by the Army,
so as not to allow the basil gangilia to become overloaded and
survival is the only thing on your mind. The job has to be the
priority, not if you get shot. But Audy Murphy, the most decorated man
in WWII, the first thing he did was look for cover. If there was a
shallow ditch across a field, they all crawled in the shallow ditch.
He always looked for cover, never showing himself if possible. His
decorations came when he got mad, then cover didn't matter. Only
killing every German he could find. How I know why and what the
training is, is not up for discussion.

--
Ken Hogan
"Truth does not give a damn what we conceive. We survive or perish
according to our ability to discern the truth correctly and act upon
it." - Ken www.veritasnovel.com
.

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